114

A—s

of organization of defence. If the Empire is to expand still more, this is one of the important factors in its expansion. We, in the Transvaal, are to-day in a difficult position. We are sitting there entirely without any means of defence, and if, for instance, the British Government were to remove the troops from there, our position would be hazardous. I have discussed the matter with Dr. Jameson and Mr. Moor, and my idea is that, if as yet we cannot bring about a general federation of South Africa we should at any rate attempt to federate on this question of defence. If we succeed in doing this, I think it will be a very effective way of aiding the Empire. lam not quite satisfied as to the exact binding effect of this proposed Resolution, and I should like to consider it further. What would be its exact effect is not quite clear to me. That is all I have to say. Mr. HALDANE : I do not know really that I need take up the time of the Conference by replying, except in ti few sentences. It is to me personally deeply gratifying to find that to so very great an extent we have all been thinking upon the same -lines. It seems" to me that this Conference is very much of a common mind about the broad principles which underlie this matter, but there are, of course, questions of difficulty. Dr. Smartt has raised a very important point as to whether it would not be possible for each of the self-governing Dominions of the Crown to raise a special contingent as I may call it, for service in the defence of the Empire. That would practically put that contingent into the first line, leaving the second line to be organized out of the local forces. Well, of course one sees a great many problems that may arise at once as regards that, although it would be a most valuable thing if it could be carried out. One sees the difficulty—to whom would that force be responsible ? Who would have power to call it out on the outbreak of war, and so on? Would it be a volunteer force or would it be a force which undertook the same kind of responsibility as the first line itself, namely to obey the directions of the Commander-in-Chief, whoever he may be, who was nominated to the supreme command of the war 1 Those are not insuperable difficulties by any means and I merely mention them to show that this is probably a point upon which this Conference cannot come to a detailed or definite conclusion without going into matters. Dr. SMARTT : If I may say so, Mr. Haldane, I had considered that point and that was not my difficulty. The difficulty was that, say, in Cape Colony, we have our Volunteer Forces and what we call our Cape Police and our Cape Mounted Rifles. Under existing conditions, none of these forces can be called upon to serve outside certain areas. My idea was that certain of those forces should be disbanded (or whatever is the proper military term) and re-enrolled, so that the men could, with the consent and control of the country, be sent to any part of the world if circumstances required them, because,' under existing conditions, if the people of the Colony desired that the services of these permanent ('ape forces should be utilised, without special enrolment they could not be sent away without their special consent —which, though it would be readily given, would naturally cause delay. It was exactly the problem to which I think the Canadian Minister for War referred with regard to the contingents they sent to South Africa, viz. : that they had really to get the consent of the men; there was no possibility of sending them, even with the desire of the Government and Parliament, owing to the character of their enrolment. Sir JOSEPH WARD : We are entirely against discrimination of that kind in New Zealand. We would not favour that at all. I should like to say that, Mr. Haldane.

Fourth Day. 20 April 1007.

Military Defence. (General Botha.)