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the object this Conference has at heart, namely, the training and directing the surplus population from the United Kingdom to British Colonies is being attained without too much organisation and without too much obvious regulation. The other point is this : I trust that this Conference will realise what my experience suggests, and what I think the facts inform us upon, which is that over-zealous attempts to get people to emigrate very frequently do more harm than good. They very often attract the wrong type of people to the right place, and the result is that disappointment ensues, and the permanent steady flow of regular emigration is damaged thereby. I trust that the Conference will agree with us that emigration by settlement of communities of men is not a desirable thing. The northern farmer in another connection said : " The poor in a loomp is bad,"' hut the poor in a lump taken from one country and from special districts and of a particular class to another is worse. Ido not care whether you emigrate bodies of rich men from England to Canada or Australia, even if you can get them all to live together in their new home, which rs doubtful, that in itself is not so beneficial as it would be if they were spread over a large area. In any case, to take large communities of men from one district of England and to dump them down in any Colony is, in my judgment, a mistake. What we have to do is to guide and direct the individual, let him go where his aptitude inclines him to go, but any attempt, if Dr. Jameson will pardon me for saying it, of close settlement, of land settlement, of settlement by communities of men such as philanthropic associations have attempted in some parts of Canada and America, is, in my judgment, a mistake, as experience will prove. Outside the Doukhobors, in Canada, 1 have learnt of no case of a community of emigrants that was at all worth the money spent upon it, or which in any way justified the enthusiasm or the hopes raised on its behalf. Dr. JAMESON : Close settlement does not mean large settlements going out, It could be very well carried out by individual emigrants. Mr. BURNS : Yes, I know, but that is a very risky experiment. I mean there should not be 1,000 men from one part of England taken to some particular part in any of the Colonies. It is best to mix them up. They have different tastes, they have different habits, and the tendency of these settlements, however large, or however small, is for them to become a first-rate collection of social and political cranks, ending in failure and disappointment, and waste of the money spent upon them. Dr. JAMESON : Excuse me, there is some misapprehension as to what I mean by close settlement The fact of the matter is, in South Africa our land is in large areas, and it is the large farms of 2,000 or 3,000 acres, and so on, which exist until we get irrigation, as mentioned by General Botha, so that we can, like in Canada and in Australia, I believe, get a family to live on 160, or 20. or 10 acres even. That is my idea of close settlement. Mr. BURNS : I understand the point is, that in a tropical or semitropical climate agriculture can only be carried on by irrigation and more or less artificial means, and you have more or less to pack your people in certain areas, because there the irrigation scheme is. That Ido not object to, but to ask that a certain block of population should be taken, or a certain class of population should be taken from the old country for that particular work, in my judgment will ultimately prove to be a mistake. It leads to industrial, social, mental and moral, disadvantages that we need not enlarge upon afTthis particular moment.

Sixth Day. 25 April 1907,

Emigration. (Mr. Burns.)