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to be brought into closer touch with the Old World. Our greatest difficulty, and indeed the greatest misfortune that we suffer from, is the time that it takes to get our products and our people to and from England itself. What I have suggested may not be feasible, but I should be so glad if it were possible for the powerful British Government to, in some way, investigate the matter with a view to seeing whether this world's highway could not be made in the interests of the development of the trade between certainly those portions of the world that use the Suez Canal. Mr. ASQUITH : Do you consider that the present rate of tolls is prohibitive to the cheaper kind of cargo and vessels ? Sir JOSEPH WARD : I have been told repeatedly, by people who are concerned on both sides of the world, that for ordinary cargo purposes they do not generally send their vessels through the Canal to or from Australia and New Zealand because of the tolls. Mr. LLOYD GEORGE : I know the tramps complain bitterly and say that their interests are sacrificed to those of the liners. Sir WILLIAM LYNE : It costs one steamship company 100,000/. a year. Mr. DEAKIN : To the fortnightly boats running to Australia it means 100,000/. a year. Mr. LLOYD GEORGE : The tramps have been asking here for increased representation on the London Committee; but, unfortunately, we have no power at all in the matter. Mr. ASQUITH : This is a very important question which has been raised. Sir JOSEPH WARD : It is connected with trade, and I felt I must allude to it. Ido not propose to take up the time of the Conference very much longer, but I also want to say how very much, certainly New Zealand, and I think all the self-governing Colonies, would value the co-operation of Great Britain with them in their desire to come closer to the Old World. I am not unmindful of the fact that you are doing a great deal, and a great deal that is appreciated, in the direction of assisting in the carriage of mails, and consequently helping to obtain improved and cheaper facilities for passengers and cargo, on liners to and from our Colonies. I may, perhaps, be allowed to speak for Mr. Deakin in this matter, and for myself, and I know also for Sir Wilfrid Laurier, because we want to bring our countries, that is New Zealand, to within 20 days of London, and Australia and Canada proportionately to a very much greater extent. Mr. DEAKIN : That makes for unity. Sir JOSEPH WARD : Yes, I refer to this because it makes for unity, because it makes for cohesion, and because it brings about a feeling or recognition on the part of the people in our countries that the people in the Old World, whence they.came, are in sympathy with them. Even if we cannot to-day put all we advocate into practical effect their desire is, if

Ninth Day. 1 May 1907.

Preferential Trade. (Sir Joseph Ward.)

year.