A.—s

350

Mr. WINSTON CHURCHILL : You have suggested rather a curious alliance. Dr. SMARTT : Mr. Winston Churchill suggests it would be rather a curious alliance. We have seen extraordinary alliances; and I say that for the safety of a great Empire like Great Britain and her Dependencies, we have no right to take any chance in the matter, however small that chance may be. Nobody would take a chance of that character in his ordinary business matters; he would insure his goods to the fullest extent and I do not think, although the contingencies may be very far distant, we have any right whatsoever to take a chance of that sort. Now, Lord Elgin, I feel I have really taken up perhaps too long the time of the Conference, but 1 am only mentioning these things because I feel them very acutely. I should like to assure you, Sir, and I believe I speak the views of everybody in this room, that we have no political considerations in any way whatsoever, as between the two great parties in this country; we only consider that it is our duty to urge upon the people of Great Britain the advisability of considering whether there is not some small way in which they can meet what in the Colonies is considered to be a matter of vital importance to the future well-being of the Empire. Mr. LLOYD GEORGE : I suggest, Lord Elgin, that now we might adjourn because I should like, before I say anything, to hear from Mr. Deakin what his view is about the treaties. I cannot deal with that now, and I think it is so much better, as Sir Wilfrid Laurier has suggested, to deal with the whole thing at once. It would be an advantage to me if Mr. Deakin were able to put that point before I reply. Mr. DEAKIN : Certainly. Mr. LLOYD GEORGE : I know he is not prepared this afternoon. Mr. DEAKIN : I had no expectation that this would come forward, and have not the papers with me. Dr SMARTT : As the figures were quoted, I wish to put the case of the Cape as fairly as possible with regard to the condition of the wine industry. Previous to the Cobden Treaty of 1860, 1 think we sent over 800,000 gallons of wine to Great Britain. When Mr. Cobden went to France with a view to getting a market for certain British manufactures a reciprocal understanding was arrived at whereby France reduced her duties upon certain manufactures and we were then so "desirous of appearing not to ask for advantages for ourselves, that we said they must be reduced to the whole of the world, we being the only people who benefited by them. Great Britain, on her part, reduced considerably her duty upon silk; and at one sweep of the pen reduced her duties upon French wine (which were ss. (id. at that time) by 2s 9d per gallon. From that moment the wine industry in the Cape, which under preference was becoming a very profitable industry and by this time would have been an enormous industry, was absolutely strangled owing to the fact that many of the French wines were of slight alcoholic strength, and they absolutely at once took possession of the market At the present moment our wine exports to Great Britain I do not think are more than 5,000/. or 8,000/. a year. Surely that is a case in which Australia and the Cape could be met by the British Government as sympathetically as Canada has done on the question.

Tenth Day. 2 May 1907.

Preferential Trade.