367

A.—s

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE : Then I have pointed out by the figures I have given, that during the last few years we have increased the distance between us and Germany, our most formidable competitor. Dr. JAMESON : You do not quite understand my meaning. Before these people really got on to their legs, 3,000/. a year might be a bigger increase for us than even 7,000,000/. would be at present. That is my point. Mr. LLOYD GEORGE : I agree, and that is why I object to the doctrine of percentages; and as for Germany and the United States of America and France getting on their legs, they have been on their legs pretty long. It is not because they are new countries and not fully developed; they are certainly developed up to their highest pitch, as far as manufacture is concerned, and as far as the conditions of the moment are concerned. Their mechanical appliances, and everything of that kind, are simply perfect, and I am not sure they are not better than ours from all I hear. Dr. JAMESON : Yes, I believe they are. Mr. LLOYD GEORGE : Therefore, it is not the case of infant countries just struggling to find means of establishing a business. The United States and Germany have established an enormous business, and, as far as the home market is concerned, it is a much bigger one than ours, because their population is more than three times as large as ours. Here you have these two great countries with an aggregate population of 140,000,000, ours being only a population of about 40,000,000, and we export very nearly as much of manufactured products to the world as both of those great rivals put together. Really, I do not think it can be said that we are altogether in this very distressful, wretched condition which so stirred Sir William Lyne's commiseration. We are doing rather well as far as our products are concerned, and before we proceed further it is much better that we should really get the facts and that we should be under no delusion upon this point. Mr. DEAKIN : Will it fall into your argument presently to examine your British trade with your two great rivals, Germany and the United States ? Mr. LLOYD GEORGE : T have done so. Mr. DEAKIN : Your trade with Germany, France, and the United States as compared with their trade to Great Britain —is that part of your argument yet to come ? Mr. LLOYD GEORGE : No, but I am willing to go into it. Mr. DEAKIN : You have taken the collective trade with the world of each of those countries, measuring it with yours, perfectly fairly ? Mr. LLOYD GEORGE : Yes. Mr. DEAKIN : Is it part of your argument to examine their trade with yourselves in the last few years, showing how far your trade has gone or gained in the German, French, and American markets ?

Eleventh Day. 6 May 1907.

Preferential Trade. \