A.—s

372

Dr. JAMESON : Because we began with a much larger amount to get a share on, I repeat again. Mr. LLOYD GEORGE : Pardon me, I cannot accept that. We have had no advantages except the advantage which in my judgment a free fiscal system gives us — absolutely no more advantage. Germany has advantages over us which in many respects we do not possess. There she is in the centre of the most opulent consumers in the world, with the accumulated wealth of centuries; she is right in the centre and can run her trucks to any country in Europe; she needs no transhipment. What an element transhipment is, after all, when you come to trade! As Sir Wilfrid Laurier knows perfectly well, that is one of the difficulties of the transcontinental route to New Zealand. Germany is right in the centre of Europe, and can run truck loads to every country. We cannot do that. But in spite of that we have had a bigger share of the good things going, owing to the excellent trade of the wprld, than any country, and almost than any two of those countries put together. Dr. JAMESON : And if you had not you wouid be in a hopeless condition at this stage, because you formerly had the whole of it practically speaking. In general terms we all know how difficult it is to divert trade from a particular country, and when diverted how difficult it is to get it back. The process of diverting is only going on naturally, slowly, because we had it all at the beginning. These people are in the process of diverting it, which is a slow uphill game. Mr. LLO YD GEORGE : All that is very good in the abstract, but unfortunately facts are against it. Take any of those great countries—take any country you may name. Australia 1 shall have to come to by and by, because, I agree, something seems to be wrong in the trade between our country and Australia, and I should like to know something more about it. It is no use concealing that fact. Ido not quite like the figures to which my attention has been drawn since I have been in this Conference. I think it is a matter which requires looking into. I think it is a great misfortune that there should be any drop in our trade with so important a market from our point of view, and 1 think there must be something wrong there. But take any other market in the trade. Mr. F. R. MOOR : It is the only Colony which is not yet giving reciprocity. Mr. LLOYD GEORGE : I am obliged to Mr. Moor for pointing that out to Mr. Deakin. Mr. DEAKIN : He uses the wrong word. No Colony is getting reciprocity. Mr. LLOYD GEORGE : Yes, they are getting reciprocity. You are giving us reciprocity. It was something which we started by giving. lam trying to answer now the point raised by Dr. Jameson. There is not a great market in the world in which we have not more than held our own in the last few years. I pointed out that there were markets where it looked at one time as if Germany and the United States of America, our most formidable competitors, were rather gaining upon us—South America is a case in point

Eleventh Day. 6 May 1907.

Preferential Trade.