395

A.—s

Sir JOSEPH WARD : For instance, from Munich to Constantinople a German who is a manufacturer and exporter of a similar line of goods to a manufacturer in England can, in some form or another, get a rate from Munich to Constantinople so as to give him the chance of obtaining the trade in the Levant more favourably than another manufacturer producing an article in England of the same character can get to the sea-board and on to a steamer. Mr. LLOYD GEORGE : I know. Here is a case. " The mileage rate "charged under this tariff"—this special through-rate tariff- —"by the " German State railways for the carriage of goods may be approximately " estimated in the following manner. Taking, for instance, the rate per ton " of 1,000 kilos for 10 ton lots of the highest class of goods (such as india- " rubber articles, hats, silks, electro-plate, shoes, &c.) from Munich to Alexan- " dria, Braila, Constantinople, Galatz, &c., this would be 71s. Taking on the " other hand the rate for the same goods to the same destination from Berge- " dorf about 10 miles only'from Hamburg, the same is only 565. Id. It would " result therefrom that 14s. lid. is the mileage rate for the railway carriage " between Munich and Bergedorf, and that the rate per ton per mile (as " Munich is 493 miles from Bergedorf) is thus a fraction over one-third of " Id." No railway in the world can carry those goods at that rate. It therefore means that the cost falls upon the State system of railways. Sir WILFRID LAURIER: Do you mean the loss is borne by the State? Mr. LLOYD GEORGE :By the railways. The whole system belongs to the State in Germany, and the State makes a great profit upon the system as a whole. It pays them undoubtedly well. The German traders I saw here a short time ago were very satisfied with the whole system, and said it was worked in such a way as to assist the development of trade and industry there. Sir JOSEPH WARD : The whole thing is scientifically worked now. Mr. LLOYD GEORGE : Yes. I have put in the conclusions of this Committee, so that the Members of the Conference can peruse them at their leisure. I would not think for my part of even considering a suggestion of this character if it were intended in any way as a proposal for buttressing up British shipping at the expense of the general tax-payer. I think it is better to say so at once, in order to clear that idea out of the way. It will make it all the easier for us to discuss the proposal actually outlined from other points of view. I gather that that is the opinion of Sir Joseph Ward also. He has not put it on the ground of subsidising ships. Sir JOSEPH WARD : Certainly not. Mr. LLOYD GEORGE : I know his anxiety is—and that anxiety we share with him —to bring the Colonies and the Mother Country nearer together in point of time, and to bring their produce to the market, if possible, at rates which would not unduly handicap them in competition with foreign countries. We realise that the Empire produces almost every conceivable commodity required by her inhabitants. One of the advantages of an Empire so widely scattered is that it possesses every character of climate and soil; but on the other hand the disadvantage of such geographical distribution is to be found in the difficulty of bringing the commodities to its consumers in the different parts of the Empire as required. This resolves

Eleventh Day (> May 1907.

Preferential Trade.