A—s

408

with very great interest, as everybody has, and very great attention also, to everything that has been said, and I see no reason at present to change the opinion which I formed then. Mr. Deakin, in the course of the very able presentment which he made of the case as he conceived it on the part of the Dominions beyond the Seas, referred us to the case of the German Zollverein. Sir William Lyne, who followed, took the same line also. It is certainly a case in point, and the only regret I have, for my part, is that I cannot see my way to accept the policy of such a Zollverein as was adopted in Germany towards the year 1830, if I remember right. Nor do I see that any of the Dominions which are here represented could be in a position to accept that principle. In the case of the German people, commercial unity preceded political unity. With us, political unity exists. We are all subjects of the same Sovereign. The question before us is whether or not commercial unity can also follow. The German peoples when the Zollverein was first introduced, were, if I may use the expression, a mob of principalities. There was quite a number, some 30 or more dependencies of all sizes, some big and some small, and each one had its own Sovereign, with* common language, common institutions, and practically the same economic conditions. But they all had tariffs one against the other. There was a customs house at every few miles. When the Zollverein was adopted all this was done away with, and they adopted a common commercial union. They abolished the customs houses, established amongst themselves a system of Free Trade, and established a customs cordon around their own country. If it were possible for us to have a system of Free Trade over the whole British Empire, and a customs cordon around the British Empire, for my part I would accept this as the very idealof what the British Empire ought to be. I have expressed the opinion more than once, and I will express it again. The Americans have a system of Free Trade amongst themselves covering 45 States now with a population of over 80,000,000 people. The Germans have a system of Free Trade amongst themselves covering nearly 60,000,000 people. The French have a system of Free Trade amongst themselves of some 40,000,000 people. If it,were possible to have a system of Free Trade covering the whole British Empire with its population of something about 400,000,000, it would undoubtedly be one of the greatest benefits that could be given to the British Empire, and, perhaps, to the world. Unfortunately this cannot be done, and for two reasons. First, the British people, as I understand at present their political opinion, are not prepared to limit their system of Free Trade even to the extent of the boundaries of the Empire. The other reason is that the selfgoverning dependencies which are here represented are not prepared to extend the system of Free Trade to the limits of the British Empire, nor even to the extent of their own boundaries. These factors are here before us, and we must accept them as they are. Mr. DEAKIN :• Is not the fact that the British Government raises so large a proportion of its revenues by Customs duties, as do also the several Dominions, a very serious consideration? Sir WILFRID LAURIER: No. The British Government at the present time do not raise their revenue from Customs, except upon those articles which are luxuries and a fit subject of taxation —spirits, tobacco, wine to a certain extent —but I think wine can be discarded out of the discussion. A large extent of the revenue raised by Customs by the British Parliament is also"the subject of Excise duties. It is strictly a subject held by all civilised nations at the present time, as being eminently a source of revenue, and which should be treated for revenue purposes". We do this in Canada also. We submit spirits and tobacco not only to Customs but to Excise duties, and in

Twelfth Day. 7 May 1907.

Preferential Trade. (Sir Wilfrid Laurier.)