A—s

460

proposed reservation is intended to apply to the inter-Imperial carrying trade in both directions, or only to the outward trade from the Lnited Kingdom to the Colonies, and to trade between the Colonies. If extended to inward trade from the Colonies to the United Kingdom —as 1 understand it is — the exclusion of foreign ships generally would raise questions in connection with a number of important treaties, some of which it is in the highest degree to our interest to maintain. If confined to outward trade to particular ('olonies, the question depends upon the treaties which happen to bind the particular Colonies in question. Of course, if the exclusion be confined to the countries (United States and Russia) which exclude us, there is no treaty obstacle to the reservation of inter-Imperial trade, but neither does there seem to be any material advantage in such a course. lam going to put in a memorandum — I need not trouble the Conference by reading it—as to (i) the participation of foreign vessels in our inter-Imperial and coasting trades; (ii) the practice of foreign countries with respect to reserving or opening their inter-Imperial or coasting trades; and (iii) the treaty position. It has been circulated. That is all I have to say. Sir WILFRID LAURIER : This shows the great difficulty there is in having a uniform policy for the Empire so far as questions have been brought up at the Conference As I understand your remark, Mr. Lloyd George, the resolution as drafted and submitted by Mr. Deakin to be re-affirmed, which was passed in 1902, affects only two nations — Russia and the United States. Mr. LLOYD GEORGE : That is so. Sir WILFRID LAURIER : You say you have no competition with the United States in that branch of business. Mr. LLOYD GEORGE : None. Sir WILFRID LAURIER : And very little with Russia. Therefore it does not affect you at all. Mr. LLOYD GEORGE : No. Sir WILFRID LAURIER : But it affects us tremendously on the Pacific Ocean. Mr. Deakin, representing Australia, and Sir Joseph Ward, representing New Zealand, and I representing Canada, are very much hit by it You have not competition with America but we have The competition is very unfair If the Americans choose to exclude us from their coasting trade which is supposed to be generally a matter pertaining to the shipping of any nation, I do not think we should have much to say, but the Americans have extended their coasting law in a manner which seems to be absolutely unprecedented, if not trespassing upon international law, by extending coasting law to Honolulu. It places us at a tremendous disadvantage that shipping from Australia to San Francisco cannot call at Honolulu. A ship leaving Vancouver for Australia or New Zealand cannot call at Honolulu. 11 is a very serious impediment to our shipping. We have had to submit to it. We could not avoid it. Mr. LLOYD GEORGE : Why? Sir WILFRID LAURIER : Because we have had ships which traded between Australia and the United Kingdom which want to call at Honolulu, and they cannot do it now. There is the difficulty.

Thirteenth Day. 8 May 1907.

Coastwise Trade. (Mr. Lloyd George.)