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that place is some four days' steam from San Francisco out in the Pacific Ocean. When we submitted a resolution at the Conference over which Mr. Lloyd George presided to discuss the propriety of dealing with our New Zealand shipping to a number of islands in the Pacific, we are told that we cannot control them and that foreigners and everybody else can do as they like there. As a general principle, we do not take exception to that. We want the right to govern our own ships, as to pay and everything; but when we go to a place on the road to England, under the laws of America, extending thousands of miles from the coast of the mainland, we are obliged to travel in an American ship only, and not have one of our ships under contract with them. This resolution, to my mind, is most important. The whole aspect of it comes under the scope of it and is deserving of great consideration at the hands of the British Government. Mr. LLOYD GEORGE : You want us to consider the question of refusing to foreign ships the privilege of trading between British Possessions. It is of no use our considering it. We have considered it over and over again. We could not hit Russia or the United States. Sir JOSEPH WARD : I will put a question, but I do not suppose you can answer it; it gives the clearest illustration of what has been done to us. If a law were submitted from our country about it, it would necessarily require to be held over before the King's consent could be given. If we were to suggest the imposing of a law in New Zealand to say that American shipping trade to New Zealand passing on to Australian ports was to be considered, between Auckland and Sydney, as working in a coastwise trade and not allowed to ship a passenger or a ton of cargo from Auckland to Sydney— 1,200 miles —and that trade was confined to British ships, you would have to hold that law over because it would be in contravention of what has hitherto prevailed. Yet what we complain of and made representations about time and again are in somewhat the same position. A British ship, aP. and 0., and Orient, Union New Zealand line, New Zealand Shipping Company or Australian vessel, cannot trade from America, and call at Honolulu, en route to New Zealand and take a passenger or a ton of cargo for the reason that it is controlled under the American coastwise law. There must be some way of reciprocity to prevent it. It is grossly unjust. It seems to me it is a straining of the idea of what coastwise trade is to such an extent as almost to make us believe we are living in the Dark Ages. It has never been done in the world before, and now, it is extended to the Philippines and we all feel it very keenly. Sir WILLIAM LYNE : Did not they seize one vessel on one occasion ? Mr. LLOYD GEORGE : You might require Imperial legislation for that. I should not like to express an opinion. Sir WILFRID LAURIER : All this is new to you, I am sure. Mr. LLOYD GEORGE : Yes. Sir WILFRID LAURIER : It shows the necessity of giving it more attention and more study. lam not prepared myself to say what should be done, but it is a new condition of things which has developed, and which ought to be looked into, because it is interfering with us very seriously; and with all due respect to the Americans, for whom we have a great admiration and with whom we are very friendly, they are intensely selfish in their

Thirteenth Day. 8 May I (107.

( loastwtsi Trade. (Sir Joseph Ward.)