579

A.—s

route," as it has been very happily termed in Australia, over British territory absolutely. If that be the case it requires no experts at all. Mr. LLOYD GEORGE : For cost, surely? Sir WILFRID LAURIER : If you have a company in which you would have such a man as Lord Strathcona, who will undertake it for such a sum, you will have to determine whether you are prepared to pay the sum or not. No expert would be required there. If you found a company on the Atlantic Ocean who would be prepared to put down their money for such a service provided they get a subsidy. Five years ago you gave a subsidy to the Cunard Company for the service between Great Britain and New York. I think it would have been far better if it had been given to a line to Canada, but it is no use going into that now. With this amendment that I have made you have two proposals before you; one with regard to the Atlantic service, and one with regard to the Pacific service. With regaFd to the Atlantic service, what we want to have is a service equal to the best now in existence in the world; that requires no expert knowledge, but it is a question of policy, shall or shall we not have it ? If we want to have it we must pay for it. No company will undertake such a service without a liberal subsidy. The only question, therefore, is, will you do it, and be prepared to pay the price which is reasonable for it ? As to the second question, the Pacific service, I limit it according to the suggestion of Sir Joseph Ward, to say we are prepared to back a service as nearly equal in speed and character to the Atlantic ships as circumstances will permit. Here again, there is no necessity for experts; it is a question of policy, shall you or shall you not have such a service i That is a question for the Conference to decide and I think you should put the question. CHAIRMAN : Do you wish it put as it stands ? Sir WILFRID LAURIER : With the amendment. Sir WILLIAM LYNE : May I say that the wording of that resolution might be misunderstood, the words are " speed and character " as nearly as you can get them to those running across the 'Atlantic. It does not want such large boats. At the present moment there is a turbine boat running between Melbourne and Launceston at 21 knots, and a boat 1,000 or 2,000 tons larger than that is not a fourth the size of the boats running from here to New York, and it would do that service well and do it much cheaper. Sir JOSEPH WARD : It says, " speed and character." It does not say size. Sir WILLIAM LYNE : The character means as nearly as possible like those between here and New York. Sir WILFRID LAURIER : How would you change it! Sir WILLIAM LYNE : So that it is clearly understood that they are not ships of the size or anything like the size of those running to New York now. As long as they have the speed, and they are suitable, a ship of 5,000 or 6,000 tons would be quite sufficient. Sir JOSEPH WARD : We have a similar steamer now running in the Vancouver service in the summer months, ow r ned by New Zealand, the " Maheno."

Fifteenth Day. 14 May 1907.

Mail Service to Australia and New Zealand via Canada. (Sir Wilfrid Laurier.)