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REI'OIIT OF PROOFEDINO9 OF THfi CONFERENCE.

Sir JOSEPH WARD : Yes, we have power to do it. The CHAIRMAN : How do you deal with foreign vessels ? Sir JOSEPH WARD : In the same way. The CHAIRMAN : Do you claim the power of survey of all foreign vessels ? Sir JOSEPH WARD: Yes; if she is unseaworthy she will not be allowed to go out. The CHAIRMAN : We do the same to foreign vessels. Sir WILLIAM LYNE : Would this apply to the internal arrangements of the ship ? Supposing it ship did not give proper accommodation in various ways but still was seaworthy, do you propose that to come under the provision you have now or the New Zealand provision ? Mr. LLEWELLYN SMITH : It would have to have a certificate—an unexpired certificate—and the conditions are pretty stringent. Sir JOSEPH WARD: Quite so; it comes under the question, but these points do not touch survey at all. Sie WILLIAM LYNE : That is what I want to know. Sir JOSEPH WARD : That is a different point. The CHAIRMAN : That is a different point, and we must pass on to that. Sir WILLIAM LYNE : It seems to me that we might come to some arrangement, although I would not like to say positively at the present time. When it comes to the question of internal arrangements of a ship, even though she may be seaworthy,— The CHAIRMAN : Do you mean accommodation for the crew ? Sir WILLIAM LYNE: Yes; and a variety of other things. These are important matters. She may be seaworthy, but she may not in the estimation of Australia be fit to go to sea in that regard. If that does not apply to that at all, but only as to whether she is fit to go to sea as a seaworthy ship, then of course it does not seem to me that the scope is so large. Sir JOSEPH WARD : So as not to put anybody in a difficult position in voting, I give notice of motion of that at the next meeting. The CHAIRMAN : Yes, and it would give us time to consider whether we cannot meet it. It would involve an increase in our staff. Sir JOSEPH WARD : Then I give notice of motion. The CHAIRMAN : The certificate shall be accepted, subject, of course, to the power of the authority, if their surveyor thinks the vessel is unseaworthy, to order a resurvey. Mr. HAVELOCK WILSON, M.P. : Might I just say a word as representing the seamen on this. Of course, when I am speaking of the seamen, we represent the trade to all parts of the world—New Zealand, Australia, and everywhere else, and they are all interested in this question. We do not want in any way to inconvenience the British shipowners, but rather the other way —to help them. But we do think that with regard to cargo resaela which do not commence their voyage from the United Kingdom, and as a matter of fact never touch the United Kingdom for years, we do think it would be a good thing if these vessels go to Australia and have never been surveyed here for years, and go to New Zealand or elsewhere, that unless they have a Board of Trade certificate showing that thev have been subjected to some survey within a reasonable time, we think that Australia or New Zealand ought to have the right to survey those vessels. Mr. NORMAN HILL: But in your case the Board of Trade certificate would have expired, and therefore it would be quite Mr. HAVELOCK WILSON: 1 am speaking of cargo vessels that are not subject to survey; I am not speaking of passenger vessels.

Mr. NORMAN HILL: I agree; but the suggestion made by Sir Joseph Ward is this : that a cargo vessel can voluntarily subject herself to the same surveys as passenger vessels and have a Board of Trade certificate. In that case it should be treated as prima facie. Mb. HAVELOCK WILSON : We agree. Mb. NORMAN HILL : But your case is the case of a vessel which does not touch a British port for 12 months, and therefore the certificate has expired, and she goes to an Australian port as an unsurveyed ship. Mr. HAVELOCK WILSON: Yes; we fall in with that. Mb. NORMAN HILL: She has no certificate; it has expired. Sir JOSEPH WARD : Under Section 5, Clause 186, it is provided where any certificate has expired the Marine Department may issue a certificate. Mb. HAVELOCK WILSON : That would be satisfactory to us. Sir WILLIAM LYNE : What is the duration of your certificate ? Mr LLEWELLYN SMITH : Twelve months. Mr. HAVELOCK WILSON : Cargo? .Mr. LLEWELLYN SMITH: Yes; but the suggestion is that there should be a certificate for cargo vessels—that should be a twelve months' certificate. Mb. NORMAN HILL : That is a difficulty. The CHAIRMAN : Two or three years for a cargo vessel ? Mr. NORMAN HILL: Yes. Mr. LLEWELLYN SMITH: I see. At any rate that is a suggestion which will be a very useful one for consideration, not only by the Colonial Representatives, but by the representatives of the shipowners and the Board of Trade. Sir JOSEPH WARD: I suggest to the shipowners iMI they should supplement that by way of notice of motion, to the effect that in all Colonial legislation it be provided that the Imperial Board of Trade certificate be accepted. If you provide for the two classes of steamers, then you meet the whole position. Mb. NORMAN DILL : Is it possible as a matter of business to simplify this practical difficulty—the difficulty of expense and the difficulty of carrying a Bill through, by taking Lloyd's classification certificate, the recognised class certificate ? Sir JOSEPH WARD : That is for the Board of Trade. I'm: CHAIRMAN : If it satisfies the Board of Trade —it is a matter for them to look into—we must consult Captain Chalmers on that first. Hon. W. M. HUGHES: On page 31 of your Blue Book—the report of the Royal Commission—we deal with this question of seaworthiness. (Section 9, Section 10, Section 12, Section 13, and Section 14.) Survey proper is dealt with under Section 13, and it is proposed to have that particular kind of survey that you are now The CHAIRMAN : That is the one; yes. Hon. W. M. HUGHES: General condition of the vessel—deck, hull, and so on. We want to detain any vessel that for any cause at all within the meaning of the Act and within our powers is unfit to go to sea—where she is unfit according to Section 13 of our report, that is— her hull or boiler3 or her engines are insufficient, or where she is unfit by reason of insufficient life-saving provisions, or the deck and load lines, and so on. Well now, before the Commission the representatives of the German and the French lines appeared and they said— the Manager of the Messageries Maritime! man, he said—in France they had a survey, and they had certificates which were in fact an equivalent and were accepted by the Board of Trade, and they asked us, would we accept them? The scope of the Bill in dealing with seaworthiness under Section 9 is limited to all British ships and to all foreign ships carrying passengers or cargo shipped in any port in Australia to any port in the British