15

A—6a

SECOND DAY.

Thursday t j.th April, 1907

The following were present:— The Right Hon. D. Lloyd-Geoboe, M.P. (President of the Board of Trade), in the Chair. United Kingdom Delegates. Mr. H. Llewellyn Smith, C.8., I Mr. E. Pembroke, , Mr. Walteb J. Howell, C.8., Of the Board of Mr. K. Andebson, Mr. R. Ellis Cunliffe, Trade. Mr. H. F. Fernie, I Shipowners. Captain A. J. G. Chalmebs, ) Mr. R. J. Dunlop, i Mr. H. Bertram Cox, C.8.,10f the Colonial Mr. Norman Hill,) Mr. A. B. Keith, Office. Mr. J. Havf.lock Wilson, M.P., representing Seamen. Australian Delegates. Hon. Sir W. J. Lyne, K.C.M.G. - I Hon. Dugald Thomson. Hon. W. M. HrjoHES. Dr. H. N. Wollaston, LL.D., 1.5.0., of the Australian Commonwealth Department of Trade and Customs, was also in attendance. New Zealand Delegates. Hon. Sir Joseph Ward, K.C.M.G. I Mr. William Belcher. Mr. James Mills. | Mr. A. R. Hislop. Dr. Fitchett, Solicitor-General, of New Zealand, was also in attendance. Secretaries. 11* _! 4 WBBT_*,| o , the ,, (>al . d ot Trade I Mr. J. Hislop, Private Secretary to Sir J. Ward. Mr. G. E. Baker, ) | Mr. D. J. Quinn, Private Secretary to Sir W. Lyne.

AGENDA. 1. Sir Joseph Ward's motion " that it should be a suggestion to the Board of Trade that they should provide for the issue of a survey-certificate in the case of non-passenger vessels." 2. Mr. Norman Hill's motion " that standards as to hull, machinery, boilers, and life-saving appliances established by the Board of Trade and testified by current certificates should be accepted for British ships throughout the Empire." 3. Consideration of the following points :— (a) Provision scale. (6) Accommodation, Ventilation, and Conveniences. (c) Manning. * 4. Classes of voyages to which " Australian conditions " should be applicable.

The CHAIRMAN : Sir William Lyne has a memorandum which he has prepared, and I think it would be very helpful if he would read that document, and then I can get it copied and circulated. I think the sooner it gets into the hands of the Conference the better. Sir William Lyne's Memorandum is printed as an Appendix to this report. {See Appendix 8., p. 171.) Sir WILLIAM LYNE : I have had that prepared after going through the shipowners' memorandum, and I may tell you I have not had the opportunity of speaking to Mr. Hughes. I saw Mr. Thomson, who very kindly called on me yesterday, but this was not prepared at that time, so that I place this on the table as my own idea, and I believe it contains the idea of Mr. Hughes and partially of my colleague Mr. Thomson. Hon. DUGALD THOMSON : Mr. President, through you I would ask Sir William Lyne to place the memorandum before the Conference as a memorandum from himself only, and not as representing the views of the Australian representatives. I personally agree with some of the contents of that memorandum; with other portions I entirely disagree, and I would not like it to be taken as including the whole of the representatives fiom Australia. As to the memorandum, while it may be useful in its way —we are hardly getting down to concrete issues sufficiently. If we are going to interchange memoranda of this sort from one side to the other, the thing will be endless. No doubt this one will elicit a reply. I would suggest we get down to the

subjects themselves, and we will then see our grounds of difference, and deal with them if need be, going through the recommendations of the Royal Commission instead of dealing in generalities which can lead us nowhere. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : I have not seen that memorandum, and until I look through it carefully I could not say whether I agree or not. Some of the things are very obvious; some are not so obvious. I quite agree with Mr. Thomson that what we are here to-day for is not to make a general statement, but to get to business, and I think really if the discussion was limited to those matters which are given notice of we could proceed in the proper way as if we were in Committee of the House, and deal with those things and nothing else. Otherwise I shall have to table some memoranda myself. The I'll AIRMAN : There is only one observation I have to make. If Sir William Lyne wishes to have this memorandum circulated I will take steps at once to get it copied. I think it is desirable from my own point of view. I like to hear the Australian view as presented by Sir William Lyne, but there are some things we could not discuss at this conference. For instance, the question of preference. If we entered into that we could not proceed any further. It raises very big questions, which are outside the purview of this Conference. If Sir William will hand it over I will take steps to see that it shall be circulated. We will now get on to Sir Joseph Ward's motion and Mr. Norman Hill's