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REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS OP THE CONFERENCE.

Hon. DUGALD THOMSON : That does not say that others shall not be. Mn. NORMAN HILL: Do you mean only such \ . -sels. Does you motion carry a negative meaning 1 Sir JOSEPH WARD: Only such vessels, but that practically is the law enforced in New Zealand at the present moment. The CHAIRMAN : That raises a legal question. We want to leave legal questions out at the moment. We will have to discuss the definition of coastal trade. For the moment I think we had better use the word coastal trade subject to definition of coastal trade later on when we come to 4. I think we had better not discuss the definition now. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : We keep on putting off these things—the question of accommodation, ventilation, conveniences, manning—if that is only to refer to our own ships and not to any others, it is no use- discussing it at all, is it ? Because we are not here to make laws, we are here to make suggestions. Now. in the case of New Zealand, it is the law already. They have made certain provisions to which British, shipowners take exception : with regard to ourselves, we proposeto make certain laws. Well now, if the coasting trade is only to affect our own ships and not to affect yours, it is no good discussing it. The CHAIRMAN : We don't propose that. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : The question is, what is coasting trade ? 'The CHAIRMAN : 'That is a point we have to discuss. I thought we would discuss that under 4. We put that down specifically to raise a discussion on it. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : I think it is better to discuss first what is coasting trade, then what regulations should govern the coasting trade, and then what ships should come under it. The CHAIRMAN : I do not know that we want to discuss what conditions shall affect the coasting trade ; that is a matter for you. Sir JOSEPH WARD : The Imperial Act refers to coasting trade, that is why I put it in. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : The New Zealand delegation is in a very different position to ours. They are dealing with a matter that has been settled. With us we have to make the law, and any suggestion you may offer may seriously affect our Parliament. The CHAIRMAN : That would not prejudice your position at all, because that simply says whatever you insert in your law with regard to ventilation, accommodation, and conveniences, shall apply to the coasting tiade. We do not attempt to define what those con ditions shall be. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : But when we have done all tbiis and we come, as we inevitably must, to No. 4 The CHAIRMAN : Which I hope will be to-day. Sir JOSEPH WARD : I think that is quite right, so far as it goes. Hon. W. M. HUGHES :As far as it goes? But the question is, how far does it go? Sir JOSEPH WARD : You have to consider that on No. 4. Mn. NORMAN HILL : In considering this motion which, as I understand, will apply to all Acts, the Act and the Bill, are we right in understanding that in so far as they enact special requirements, they shall extend onlv to the vessels owned in the Colonies or engaged in the coastal trade. We would like,, of course to submit one or two points similar to the ones we have already discussed, that is to say that there shall be reciprocity —they should accept our standards. The CHAIRMAN : But Sir Joseph Ward's proposition is with regard to the oversea trade. We won't for the moment attempt to delimit the oversea trade from the eoaslal trade, but so far as the oversea trade is concerned. New Zealand conditions shall apply to those ships engaged in the coastal trade.

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Mi: NORMAN HILL: The motion relieves us of a very great deal of anxiety. It makes it clear that our oversea conditions have to comply with our own law. But if we support the resolution that they have the right to make their own conditions, we would like the Colonies to consider how tar they can extend to us international courtesy that we- extend to other foreign nations who deal with us. If we could come to some understanding I think we should support the resolution, but in supporting the resolution, we would like it to be clear that we would like these questions considered. Mn. LLEWELLYN SMITH : I do not gather that the resolution would preclude that. I don't say it would be accepted, but it would not be out out. Hon. W. M. HUGHES: There is one thing that I <annot quite agree with in Sir Joseph Ward's motion. It is this, that not only on vessels engaged in the coastal Hade, but vessels trading from Australia, say, vessels registered in London or Glasgow, and trading from Syiln.-y to Calcutta Sin JOSEPH WARD: Perhaps if I add this to the motion it will clear the ground : "And that coastal "trade should comprise cargo and carriage of passengers "on the coast or between the Commonwealth of New " Zealand and the Islands of the Pacific." Hon. W. M. HUGHES: Calcutta is not an island in the Pacific, nor is Manilla. The CHAIRMAN : That is raising quite a separate issue, which we shall have to settle. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : We are beginning in Australia to have a foreign-going trade. We are having vessels—they may be registered here or in Australia — but they sail from our ports to foreign ports, to South American ports, Calcutta, Singapore, and we want our conditions to apply to them as far as possible. The CHAIRMAN : They are practically Australian ships, and you have tried to meet them in Subsection C. Now that is one of the things we thought we would discuss under 1. We have been considering that very carefully — Subsection C of your report, page 37. Hon. DUGALD THOMSON : Might I point out that Ihe Report of the Commission only compiises accommodation and provisions for such ships? Mil. LLEWELLYN SMITH : Hut are not those ships practically Australian owned? I Hon. DUGALD THOMSON : Very often. Mn. LLEWELLYN SMITH : That is covered by Sir Joseph Ward's resolution; he says "owned." Hon. W. M. HUGHES: But there an- verj many which are not. Their domicile is British, although many of the ships are registered in Australia. "'here are other companies that are engaged in deep-sea trading; they put a boat on the coast for three months, and then, perhaps, she goes to Valparaiso or Singapore. We want these provisions to apply. Mr. COX : May 1 ask one question. Do you mean that if a ship registered in London goes on a lound voyage and does what we might call a coasting trade, and then takes a voyage to Valparaiso or North America, that Australian conditions are to apply to that ship after she has left for Valparaiso, on the high seas? Hon. W. M. HUGHES: You see it all depends. You can evade any law if you like by saying you do not know whether the ship is coming back again, but when, as a matter of fact, it does come back it goes te> Singapore or Valparaiso, and then it takes up the running on the coast again Mil. COX : Do you propose to penalise her for something she has done in Singapore ? Hon. W. M. HUGHES: I don't propose anything if the sort. What we say is this. We have a summary of the recommendations of the Commission, and to these clauses certain classes are affixed : —This applies to ships registered in Australia, ships licensed to trade on the Australian coast, and ships continuously trading to any port in the Commonwealth. In any case, whether it is provided for in our report or not, I