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A.—sa

RBF'ORT OF PROCEEDINGS OF THE CONFERENCE.

Tin CHAIRMAN : Not quite. Our shipowners want to know to what class of vessel these conditions are to apply. Sir Joseph Ward has moved this resolution, and he- suggests it shall apply to those engaged in the coastal trade or registered in the Colonies. I understand that means that it shall not apply to those not engaged in coastal trade, or registered in the Colonies. Hon. W. M. HUGHES: That is a different thing entirely. _____ CHAIRMAN : At any rate that has to be decided now. 'The next thing is to decide what is coastal. But I think we must decide whether these conditions are to apply to ships outside these two categories. Hon. W. M HUGHES: I say it must apply to all ships independently of where they are registered. The CHAIRMAN : That is agreed. Hon W. M. HUGHES: I don't like that word " only." Tin: CHAIRMAN :It is necessary. We must makeit clear, Jfou claim jurisdiction over these two classes: outside that, you do not claim jurisdiction. .Very well. that ought to be made clear. Sir JOSEPH WARD : We have- to define what coastal I rade is independently of that. Tin; CHAIRMAN : Put it this ways— "That the conditions imposed by Australian or New Zealand law as regards accommodation, ventilation, conveniences should only apply to vessels registered in those Colonies or engaged in their coasting trade." Hon. W. M. HUGHES: There is only one thing more, and that is if we are going to decide this, why should we keep manning and the other things out? Tin; CHAIRMAN : This is purely accommodation, ventilation, and conveniences. Hon. W. M. HUGHES: I see that, that is to say on vessels registered or engaged in our coasting trade. The resolution was then put to the meeting and carried. The CHAIRMAN : Now we come to manning. Sin JOSEPH WARD: 1 move- the same resolution, with the word "manning." Mn. HAVELOCK WILSON: Does that dispose of th. accommodation so far as the coasting trade is concerned ? T__ CHAIRMAN : Yes, as far as coasting is .on cerned, of course we shall be subject to Australian and New Zealand conditions, and now Sir Joseph proposes the same resolution with regard to manning—that British conditions shall apply to oversea trade. Sir JOSEPH WARD : My contention is we cannot extend beyond our own jurisdiction. __■ CHAIRMAN : Do you agree with that, Mr. Hughes ? Hon. W. M. HUGHES: Yes, that is to say regit I. nil ... engaged in. The following resolution was then unanimously agreed to :— " That the conditions imposed by Australian or New Zealand law as regards manning should only apply to vessels registered in those. Colonies or engaged in their coasting trade." Mu. NORMAN HILL: W'e have agreed that the Colonies have tin- power, now in the application we do appeal to them that they will work with us in the international spirit that one nation works with another. Take this question of accommodation. We have- defined in our Imperial Act the kind oi accommodation te be provided for tin- crew, and th.- vessels arc being built according to these require incuts. To show the kind of hardship that a shipowner would hi- subjected to if other standards on such a point as that apply, it is only necessary to refer to the Australian Bill which was introduced as recently as 1904. There, in introducing the Bill, the Australian

Parliament gave notice to the shipowners that they thought 72 cubic feet accommodation for the crew was sufficient. Take it that a shipowner who was ..anxious to comply with the regulations of the country started to build his ship strictly in accordance with that Bill, and provided 72 cubic- feet, fixed his forecastle. Wow, according to I lie Report of the Royal Commission, they have rejected the 72 feet and recommended 120 feet, and I understand from Sir William Lyne that that is to he retrospective with Australian shipping. We build our ships in accordance with our law, we man them with crews engaged here under that law, and we send those ships out to the Colonies, and they should be governed by that law, even although they happen for some voyages to be engaged in the coasting trade. HON. W. M. 11l (HIES: If you will allow me, I will read Ul and 186 of the original Bill. This section provides that the owner of every steamship regularly Hading between any port in Australia and any other port in Australia, New Zealand, or Fiji, or British New Guinea, or the South Seas, shall make provision of .2 cubic feet. Now the Commission has recommended I2U -cubic feet, and on the evidence there was drafted, for presentation to the Commission for its approval, by in. the following clause : —On the certificate of the shipwright surveyor that the alterations, if any. neceesarj to give effect to clause A of Sub-section 1 of this section arc impracticable, the Minister may, with the concurrence of the Medical Inspector, permit the owner of the ship to provide other accommodation. That is to piovide for cases where such structural alterations have to be made as arc- in the opinion of the- practical man, the shipwright surveyor, impracticable or almost so. In those cases, and those- eases only where structural alterations are either impossible or impracticable or too costly, or mean cutting up the ship, 72 feet shall still suffice. Mr. NORMAN HILL: The position would be that a vessel could be sent out from here strictly conforming with our regulations, and until it got out there it would not know whither it could take up the employment or not. Hon. W. M. HUGHES: Quite so. Mn. NORMAN HILL: That surely is very serious, and the principle- we have applied already with regard 1., safety regulations are eoually applicable here. Our present standard is a goocr one; it is 120 feet, with a minimum of 72 feet, and under no circumstances can there be less than 72 cubic feet for sleeping accommodation. That 72 feet is the standard which Australia Started with in 1904, so that there is no possibility of a ship which is grossly unprovided with accommodation coming into Australian waters. Hon. DUGALD THOMSON : They were not provided for by that resolution. Mr. NORMAN HILL: N,,: you have said in this resolution you have power to. Hon. DUGALD THOMSON : But it shall only apply to coastal ships, or ships registered in Australia." Mil. NORMAN HILL: _ee, but a ship which comes from here should be admitted into the coastal trade if it complies with our standard, which compares favourably with the standard under discussion. Hon. W. M. HUGHES: But in Section 64 of your new Act 120 cubic feet is laid down. Mn. NORMAN HILL: Take a practical points Hon. W. M. HUGHES: Just one- moment. Le point out that Section tit of your new Act says 120 cubic- feel is the amount for each seaman or apprentice, Very well, we are only going to ask you to lime ihal strictly complied with. Mr. NORMAN HILL: We do not make it retrospective. Sou say in your Bill 10 superficial feet: we say 15 superficial feet. Now. is the British ship that is giving US feet, according te r law. and which in nine-tenths of tl„- trade in which it is employed will only lie called cm to piovide those I:> feet, is it.' because it wants to enter the coastal trade of Australia, to be barred unless it increases that 15 feet to 16 feet? Hon W. \l HUGHES: First of all, it will take the best part of a year before our Act can come into force. This Act has been in force now six months.