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REPORT OF PHOOEEDINCS OF THK OONFIBKTOB.

will require ships to carry larger crews than at present, so assuredly in the case of some of the older ships it will be impossible to provide the accommodation. I do not see any objection where it can be done in a reasonable way, but I hope he won't tie his hands so that the Minister can have no discretion at all, so that in the case eif ships where it is impossible to comply with the Act, as I understand the clause he has read, it gives the Minister no latitude at all. Sir WILLIAM LYNE : The power of variation. Hon. W. M. HUGHES: I think you would find every effort would be made to meet requirements in reference to structural alterations of an important character. Mr. MILLS: Take the case of a ship carrying a crew of 20. If she is obliged to carry 28, to have to give 50 per cent, more accommodation per man, and 30 per cent, in number of men, it means an enormous addition to the space now occupied, an almost impossible thing in some of the smaller ships of the tramp type. Hon. DUGALD THOMSON : I quite agree with what Mr. Hughe-s says, that there will be a desire on the part of the Australian Parliament to meet such a reasonable proposal, and to allow that ships which are built according to the present law should receive fair consideration before any alteration is demanded. I think there is good reason for that, because, as Sir William Lyne admits, the Bill brought into the Australian Parliament declared in favour of 72 feet. In a couple of years it may be that 140 feet is required, and unless consideration is to be given, owners will be placed in a very awkward position; alterations will nave to be made which cannot reasonably be made. But what I particularly want to say is this : I do not see there is really very much in the matter as it has been brought forward. We have passed a resolution, I understand, that the Australian law in this respect shall only apply practically to vessels registered or owned in Australia nr conducting the coastal trade of Australia. Now when you come to the coastal trade, if it is decided that vessels that simply call in at Australia as a part of an oversea voyage and carry passengers and goods from port to port are coastal boats, then they will have to submit to much greater and to them more important provisions than this, they will have to submit to Australian conditions, Australian rates of pay which may be fixed by the Arbitration Court, and other conditions which will be more burdensome than these, sufficient I think to keep them from carrying passengers or cargo from port to port. Well then, it is only as coasters that they would be brought under this provision at all ; but if they do not carry passengers or cargo, they are not coastal boats and they do not come under the provision, hence where is the importance? Having passed a resolution that vessels which are not coastal, and which are not registered in Australia, are not subjected to these provisions, I do not think there is any importance in the present proposal. The CHAIRMAN : I was going to point that out. We have already passed a resolution that ships engaged in the coastal trade' in Australia shall be subject to Australian conditions. Well now, I should like to knowfrom Sir Joseph Ward and Sir William Lyne whether this new proposition is to be applicable to ships incidentally engaged in the coastal trade. Sir WILLIAM LYNE: How do you interpret the word " incidentally " '.' The CHAIRMAN : I think it was explained very well by Mr. Thomson —a ship calling at Fremantle. picking up cargo or a passenger there, and going on to Sydney and dropping the passenger or cargo there. Siu WILLIAM LYNE: That is absolutely coastal trade. Hon. W. M. HUGHES: I suggest that the Australian delegation should have an opportunity of disog something that may be suitable to us and submit it in the morning.

The CHAIRMAN : That was what I was going to suggest. I don't think we can possibly decide this to-night. It is a very important and very difficult problem. Hon. DUGALD THOMSON : After consideration it may be the mover of the resolution would come to theconclusion that under the circumstances it is not of sufficient importance to necessitate it being moved. The CHAIRMAN : I think on the whole this would be a very admirable opportunity for adjourning. I don't think we can gain much by discussing this at the present juncture. I think we shall be in a better position after consultation to consider it in the morning. But I should like to say one or two words, more especially with reference to what fell from Sir William Lyne. I recognise the desire of the Australian delegates to meet us as far as they possibly can, but I am sure Sir William does not wish to suggest that the Imperial Parliament has not been exceedingly anxious to do its best for the accommodation and the comfort and the health of the seamen, in its legislation. Sir WILLIAM LYNE : 1 think they have had that feeling, but I don't think they have gone as far as they could. The CHAIRMAN : They have gone pretty far. Allow me to point out that the British Imperial Parliament has been the pioneer of the world in the protection of the life and in the improvement of the conditions of seamen, and in the load line legulations. We were the* first to initiate legislation; we were the first with regard to life-saving appliances; we were first with regard to seaworthy ships, and we have been the first with regard to food scales, and I am not, sure we have not been in advance of Australia. Australia is discussing a food scale. So that on the wfiole we are dealing with what is, after all, a very enormous interest in this country. I want the Australian delegates to remember that when we pass a law affee:ting shipping we are passing a law which affects the biggest interest in this country, and we have to move a huge body, and it is a much more difficult matter for us, apart from the principle, to propose retrospective legislation. We have about 11,000,000 tons of British shipping already constructed under the old conditions. That is a very gigantic interest, and I want Sir William just to bear that in mind. We are moving very steadily, and we have moved in advance of Australia in one or two particulars; in fact, we have shown Sir William the way. Sir WILLIAM LYNE : I dispute that. The CHAIRMAN : And I congratulate him upon following the admirable example we have set him, and I am very glad to see that with the enthusiasm of a convert he has rather exceeded the lesson which we have given him. But I want him to bear in mind that the lesson is ours. We are the pioneers in this matter. We do consider the health of the seamen, and I am glad to say on the whole the shipowners have assisted us in this particular. They have not resisted the Bill of last year, although it imposed enormous obligations; they have not challenged it. That on the whole is very creditable. Therefore, I want to put that in as a note from the old country, if Sir William does not mind. Sir WILLIAM LYNE: I do mind very much, because we proposed the scale before the old country. The CHAIRMAN : We proposed it and carried it. Sir WILLIAM LYNE : We have taken the trouble to ventilate it properly. The CHAIRMAN : We did it, and you talked about it. Sir WILLIAM LYNE : We proposed the old scale before you did. The CHAIRMAN : Well, we will put Sir Joseph Ward's motion on the paper for to-morrow morning. (The Conference then adjourned.)

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