A.—sa

106

KEI'OUT OK PHOCEEDINGS OK THE CONKKRENCE.

Hon. DUGALD THOMSON : I had to leave, an.l that is perhaps why 1 do not remember its being put. Mr. LLEWELLYN SMITH : That is how it was. Hon. DUGALD THOMSON : Rut 1 desire my dissent recorded. 'Thk CHAIRMAN : I think we had better see that that is recorded. Mil. LLEWELLYN SMITH ; 1 do not see any reason why it should not be. recorded. That would be on Mr. Norman Hill's rider. Mr. NORMAN HILL : It is in support of mine. Hon. DUGALD THOMSON : Yes : it was dissent to the resolution as carried. Thk CHAIRMAN : Before we get on to the agenda, I should like to say this : it is a pretty formidable agenda. lam not sure ihat il is not gathering m strength, and certainly it is in dimensions, from day to day, and we cannot get through it unless we are prepared to limit the debate very considerably. Yesterday we took very considerable time over certain motions;- 1 think, longer than we ought to have done. 1 do not want to lay down any five minute rule about speeches, but I think it is desirable that speeches should be compressed within those limits if possible. Alter all, we are only addressing this Conference, and not our constituents, and we can explain afterwards to our constituents what was the reason which moved us, at greater length —the reasons which led us to support or oppose certain resolutions. Rut I think it would be possible to limit our remarks within five minutes. I think there is another rule which I must lay down : that not more than one speech shall be delivered upon a resolution by the same delegate; otherwise we shall never get to the end of our business if two or threespeeches are delivered on the same resolution by the same delegate. 'That is a rule which I think I must lay down, subject to any personal explanation which may be permitted bj the Conference, lien- is a letter from the India Office, which slates that Sir James Mackay is coining at half-past eleven, so that if we are free then we will take the resolution. Now we will proceed with the first item on the agenda, "Brussels conventions as to collisions and " salvage." Sir WILLIAM LYNE: Who brings that on? The CHAIR.MAX : This will be brought on by the Board of 'Trade. Mr. Llewellyn Smith will perhaps explain. Mn. LLEWELLI N SMITH : These conventions, win. I. have not yet been acceded to on behalf of His Majesty's Government, have been circulated to the representatives of Australia and New Zealand. Hon. DUGALD THOMSON : 1 have- m.t teen one-. Mr. MILLS : I have not had a copy. Mr. LLEWELLYN SMITH : Then we cannot discuss it, clearly ; they were circulated. Hon. DUGALD THOMSON : I have no copy. Mr. MILLS- Has then- been any list of the resolu tions passed yesterday circulated? Mr. LLEWELLYN SMITH : This was circulated some days ago. Mr. MILLS: But yesterday's work ' Mr. LLEWELLYN SMITH : I cannot tell you. Mn. MILLS: We have no note of the resolutions passed yesterday, and sometimes there is confusion as to the exact shape in which they won- passed. Mu. LLEWELLYN SMITH : It was at the suggestion of the Australian Government that it is brought before this Conference. I understand that the Colonial Governments were asked their views as to the expediency of adhering, and the reply from Australia was that it' was a fitting subject to he discussed here. 'That was the reason why it was put down. The main changes, the important points, to which attention should he directed, an Article 4, which proposed the apportionment of _es according to the degree of blame, in eases where two ships in collision are- found to be in default, in place

of the present i ule that it should be equal damage if both vessels arc in default. The second is Article - r >, which establishes liability in eases where collision is caused by the fault of the pilot., even where the- lattei is carried by compulsion ol law: and Article .s. which prescribes th#t .liter a collision, the master "i each cd the ships in " collision is bound, so far as he can do so, without serious " danger to the ship, its crew, and its passengers, to afford " help to the other ship, its crew, and its passengers, lie "is likewise bound, so far as possible, to make known I In"name of his vessel, and the port of registry as well as " the places from and to which it is sailing. The owner of "the ship is not liable by reason of contraventions of the "above provisions. Such contraventions do not either "entail a legal presumption of tault from the point of " view of pecuniary liability for the collision." 1 am I. ailing from our translation, which is not an authorised translation. It is made for the convenience of this Conference. After consulting all the interests likely to be affected in the United Kingdom, 1 may say that the' con elusion of lilt Board of 'Trade is in favour id' adhesion. ibis is an opportunity for an expression ot opinion on the part of Australia and New Zealand, if they feel dispose.l to express such an opinion. Siu WILLI WW I.VNK : What on: Mu. LLEWELLYN SMITH : As t,, whether it is d,-sir-ible that adhesion should b.- given to these conventions. These are .haft conventions I should not say they are draft; they arc conventions which have been agreed to. subject to adhesion. Sm WILLIAM I.VNK: Numbers I and G 1 do not propose to say anything upon. With regard Io No. X, outgreat objee-tion io it is that we do not want that regulation taken away of standing by a ship. Mu. LLEWELLYN SMITH : I do not think it takes away anything. Sin WILLIAM I.VNK: 'That is the interpretation. When we had a communication from the Colonial Office with reference to this, the idea was that an attempt was to be made lei reduce the liability of the mast.-is if t hey elid not conform t., the regulation. 'Thai is really the only point I want to watch. 'lon- DUGALD THOMSON : What is th,- difference between Section "->•-' of th,- M,-reliant Shipping An and this proposal ' Siu WILLIAM LYNE: It seems to me il does takeaway something. Tin: CHAIRMAN : Does il take- away any liability? Mn. NORMAN HILL: \,, : I think il brings foreign \ cssels under our law. 'Tin: CHAIRMAN : Do you hear (hat. Sir William' Sm WILLIAM LYNE: I have (1,,- law ■,- -Clause 122 of the Merchant Shipping Act With regard to this Regulation 8, my officers conceive that that will reduce the punishment. Now . under this law I d tknow whethei ii extends to both—the penalty feu not doing what is required, there is— (a) a ship not doing this is adjudged to be in default; (b) the master is liable for misdemeanour If that is not interfered with 1 have nothing more to say but if it is interfered with, we desire that it should not be. Mil. CC'NI.I.'KK: Article 9 says: "The high eon trading parties whose legislation does not forbid infra,• " turns ol the preceding article, bind themselves to take "or to propose to their respective legislatures the- steps necessary to insure the repression of such infractions" I he result would be that our Act dealing with this matter, which is section 422 of the Merchant Shipping Act. will .over this case as a punishment for the Failure to comply with il. Sin WILLIAM I.VNK : Will you show how it is prouded for here?—Why the necessity for having us to provide legislation, if yon have the legislation now ! Hon. DOGALD THOMSON : Does Section 422 of the Merchant Shipping Act make the vessel, the master of whom fails to carry out those provisions, liable, or the owner .' Mn. NORMAN HILL: The great object of this , „n v.-ntion is 1.. I,nnc all vessels under the same law Does no. Article 8 adopt th,- wli.de- of our law, Section 422