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REPORT OF I'KOCEEDINGS OF THE CONFERENCE.

"superintendent or collector of customs at the place of " desertion or at the first port of arrival. (6) If he fails ' without reasonable cause to join his ship, or to proceed "to sea in his ship, or is absent without leave at any " time within 24 hours of the ship's sailing from a port, " either at the commencement or during the progress of a " voyage, or is absent at any time without leave and with- " out sufficient excuse from his ship or from his duty, he "commits the offence" of absence without leave, and is "liable to forfeit out of his wages a sum not exceeding ' two days' pay or any expenses properly incurred in "hiring a substitute, and is also liable to 14 days' im- " prisonment : Providing that any dispute arising as to "the liability to or amount of such deduction may, with "the consent of both parties, be decided by the superin"tendent." Now that is quite clear. The shipowner under that is not liable to this suggested penalty of £100. Where I desire to see a line of demarcation drawn is that the difference between the case of a man who deserts and is punishable under our law, and a man who under the Aliens Restriction Act, and who was upon a ship's articles as an alien, if he deserts, we want to get it clear that the onus of that man going out of the country falls back on the shipowner just as though he had brought him down as an alien passenger, and we want to ensure that we have the right not of putting him in jail, but of seeing that he is expatriated at the expense of Ale shipowner. I think that position ought to be kept clear, otherwise we get into very serious trouble. That is our law under the Aliens Restriction Act. We don't want to get the two things mixed, and 1 think there must be some way of meeting the question of desertion in a reasonable manner. Mr. DUNLOP : We ship our men here, and if they desert they come under the law of fraud. But when we take our men to your country, if they desert they may leave us without a seaman. What has been said as to your wishing to impose Colonial rates of wages has rather a sinister effect; it almost looks as if you wanted to encourage our men to desert. Hon. W. M. HUGHES: How is that? Mu. DUNLOP: If you are going to do away with imprisonment for desertion the men will desert, and then we shall have to pay your Colonial wages. . Hon. W. M. HUGHES : We engage to put them back on your ship ; what more do you want ? Mr. DUNLOP : I want to ask a question about that. How are you going to put them back on our ship? Suppose the vessel is lying alongside the wharf, and is not going to sail for a week or two, does it mean that we are to keep them prisoners instead of your keeping them prisoners. Are we going to make prisons of our ships? Hon. W. M. HUGHES : What you suggest is that we keep them for you ; that we should pay for them and look after them. That is absurd. Mr. HAVELOCK WILSON : Would not the expense of the imprisonment be on the shipowner, if they were kept on shore ? Mr. DUNLOP : That is a matter of appeal. The CHAIRMAN : I don't think the Commonwealth proposals, with regard to foreign seamen, . r. Hughes, are the same as regard to British seamen, Hon. W. M. HUGHES : British and foreign. The CHAIRMAN : That is a great advance upon the Bill introduced some time ago. Under that Bill it was proposeel that foreign seamen should be forcibly placed on board the foreign ship; but with regard to Rritish seamen, no step of that kind was taken. This seems to me to represent a very substantial advance upon anything we have seen before. Sir WILLIAM LYNE : I don't think our Parliament will agree to that. I don't think they will agree to the Government undertaking to put these men' on board. I will take a case. A very short time before I left I henwas trouble Hon. W. M. HUGHES : Here is your own clause. Sir WILLIAM LYNE : There was a case which happened not long ago where they could not get through.

The men all left. What are the Government going to do in regard to a case like that ? The CHAIRMAN : You undertook to do that with regard to foreign seamen. Sir WILLIAM LYNE : That is a very different question. I am not quite sure we could do. I do not want to rush into any recommendation unless I feel fairly sure the House will accept it, and I don't think they will. Hon. DUtJALD THOMSON : You proposed it in your own Bill. Sir WILLIAM LYNE : Now, in the first place, what is desertion ? Hon. W. M. HUGHES : It is in your own Bill. Sir WILLIAM LYNE : Will you, please, be quiet. 1 never heard anyone talk so much in my life. I certainly hesitate before I agree to placing men on board a ship which they desert. I don't say altogether; but I cannot see, so far as W9 are concerned, that the foreign ship is quite in the same position as our own ship. It is true it has been suggested the foreigners should be placed on their ship, and it has been stated by the shipowners that that places the foreign ship in a better position than the British ship. Now, I want to know whether that is so. It places the shipowner, probably, in a better position —that is, the foreign shipowner in a better position—so far as keeping his men is concerned, but does it place him at any great disability in comparison with uie foreign ship. We had better look at this from a practical standpoint. How is the Government to make itself responsible to find out where these men are, to catch them, probably to keep them in prison for a week, or keep them on board the ship and make a prison of that '! 'ihat would not be a very desirable thing. Either they would have to put them in chains or else lock them up when they are in a harbour like ours, which is one of the best in the world, or where a ship is alongside the wharf. I do not see how the shipowner could keep them on board, and if the Government are not going to put them in prison, I do not see how the Government can deal with them. .Mu. DUNLOP: That is why we do not want to abolish imprisonment. Sm WILLIAM LYNE : I think we are fairly determined to do so. Mr. ANDERSON : If the Government are powerless to capture, how can a private shipowner do it? Sir WILLIAM LYNE : The Government has in the past lent the assistance of their police to capture these men, and they have detained them until they have had an opportunity of handing them over to the shipowner. The CHAIRMAN : But, Sir William, in your own Bill you propose with regard to foreign seamen to capture them and put them in prison. Sir WILLIAM LYNE : I admit that is so. But I won't do anything to place the foreign shipowner in a better position than the British shipowner, and I want to see my way clear that I can deal with that in a way that is equitable to the British shipowner, and I do not quite see how it is possible in either case to do it without imprisonment. Hon. DUGALD THOMSON : Have we not passed that resolution ? The CHAIRMAN : Yes; strictly speaking, the discussion is out of order, but Sir William Lyne happened to be absent. Sir WILLIAM LYNE : Which resolution ? The CHAIRMAN: This is the resolution: " Pro- " vided that in respect to desertion from ships other than "those (a) registered in the Commonwealth, or (b) whose " final port of discharge of the crew is in the Common- " wealth, deserters shall be placed on board such vessels "upon request by competent authority." Sm WILLIAM LYNE : I did not know that had been passed, and I should have objected to it if I had been here.