A.—sa

149

REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS OF THE 'JONFERENCE.

Sm WILLIAM LYNE : " That all vessels constructed "after a certain date shall be fitted with water-tight "compartments." I do not know whether it is necessary to fix a date. Perhaps it would be, but I mention it in that way because I do not want it to apply to ships already built; only to new ships. Hon. DUGALD THOMSON : What is included in vessels ? Sir WILLIAM LYNE : What is the proper term to use? Hon. DUGALD THOMSON : How far are you going? Steamers or sailing ships ? Sm WILLIAM LYNE : Only apply it to sea-going vessels. Hon. DUGALD THOMSON : You want it more particularly with ferries. Sm WILLIAM LYNE : Ferries, decidedly. We hav.! our ferries running in Sydney Harbour. Make it apply to passenger ships. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : Why not say all vessels? The CHAIRMAN : This is the coasting trade. Sir WILLIAM LYNE : So far as we are concerned, it is the coasting trade or any ship in our waters. The CHAIRMAN : We cannot interfere with the coasting trade, so far as I can see. Hon. DUGALD THOMSON : The recommendation from which this is drawn applied only to boats in our own waters, especially ferry steamers; then we don't need to come to this Conference. Sm WILLIAM LYNE : Not if it is held that we have that power. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : We have obviously the power over our own ships. The CHAIRMAN : I should not have thought it necessary. Sm WILLIAM LYNE : I don't want to delay this Conference. If we have that power, it is no use coming here. The CHAIRMAN : Have you anything to say about that, Mr. Norman Hill. Mu. NORMAN HILL: No; if it is confined to the Colonial registered vessels and coastal trade. Hon. DUGALD THOMSON : Might I point out to Sir William Lyne that in the report from which these resolutions are drawn it only refers to ferry steamers; it recommends that no further licenses should be issued to ferry boats unless provided with a sound hull and equipment, first-class machinery, and an up-to-date system of water-tight compartments. Sir WILLIAM LYNE : I want this to extend to ships that go to our coast. It goes further than the resolution we have already passed. Mr. FERNIE : As a matter of fact, I don't think you would find any ocean-going boat without it. Sm WILLIAM LYNE : We have control of our own licensed ships or boats, and we ought to have control of ships trading on our coast whilst there ; and if we can do it, I want this resolution to apply to ocean-going steamers which engage in the coasting trade. Look at resolution No. 9, you will find there it is defined what trading is. The CHAIRMAN : I should not have thought it necessary. Sir JOSEPH WARD : I think the New Zealand law meets the whole thing. It applies to iron steam ships : "Every steamship built of iron (except ships used solely "as steam-tugs) shall be divided by substantial trans- " verse water-tight partitions, so that the fore part of the " ship shall be separated from the engine-room by one "of such partitions, and so that the after part of such "ship shall be separated from the engine-room by another "of such partitions; and every such ship shall also have "a water-tight collision bulkhead fitted at a proper

" distance from the bow or stem to render the same '' effective.'' Sir WILLIAM LYNE : Does that apply to ships that come to your coast and trade on your coast! Sm JOSEPH WARD : It applies to everything. Sm WILLIAM LYNE : If that applies to ocean-going ships that come and become traders under resolution No. 9 that we have passed, I don't want to say any more. Sm JOSEPH WARD : I think it does. Sm WILLIAM LYNE : That is the point I want to know. Hon. DUGALD THOMSON : This was the resolution : " That the vessels to which the conditions imposed by the " law of Australia or New Zealand are applicable should "be (a) vessels registered in the Colony while trading " therein, and (b) vessels wherever registered while trad- " ing on the coast of the Colony." The CHAIRMAN : The only point is this, we have got our regulations with regard to water-tight compartments, and we ask you to extend the same courtesy to us as we extend to foreign powers. Supposing your regulations do not correspond with ours, we ask that you shall accept ours if they do not quite meet yours. Sm WILLIAM LYNE : No doubt we will. The CHAIRMAN : I understand there are five watertight compartments in every ship. Sm WILLIAM LYNE : I quite understand in the discussions that have taken place, it is admitted we have power over our locally registered ships to do what we like. But until that resolution No. 9 was passed defining what was trading, it was very indefinite if we had that power at all. Now, under that No. 9, the Conference has agreed that certain ships registered, we will say, in England or anywhere else, that if they do our coastal trade we have power to deal with them. Now I want it clearly understood. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : That was never in doubt. Sm WILLIAM LY'NE : I think it was very much in doubt, and I want this to apply to those ships coming from a distance or registered elsewhere if they cannot come under our conditions of coasting trad9, if we find a ship comes and we don't consider that that ship is properly constructed with water-tight compartments, we will •give preference to the Board of Trade and what is done here; but there are cases where ships do come, and they are not pioperly constructed, so far as safety is concerned, with water-tight compartments, and if they come trading on our coast, no matter what class of ship it is, or what country they belong to, if they become our coasting traders, I want it to be clearly understood that we reserve to ourselves the right to legislate to see that they have proper water-tight compartments. Hon. DUGALD THOMSON : But we have already passed a resolution, and it is perfectly clear, which are the vessels to which the conditions imposed by Australia and New Zealand apply. Now, I suppose it is unquestioned that the law of Australia and New Zealand can impose these conditions. It is as stated before, vessels registered in the Colonies and vessels trading on the coast. Sm WILLIAM LYNE : That resolution was constructed on one that I proposed that did not contain that specific provision (h), and Mr. Hughes moved an amendment to bring in (6), and if he thought it was not necessary to do it under the powers that we already have, why did he bring it in? Hon. DUGALD THOMSON : That is not the question. Thi3 resolution covers all you want. Mr. LLEWELLYN SMITH : That resolution defined the classes of ships. Within that limit you can impose the conditions; outside that limit you cannot. That was the intention. Sm WILLIAM LYNE : But before, we had not the definition of what trading ships were. Mr. LLEWELLYN SMITH : I was in the Chair, and I remember that.