A.—s a.

162

REPORT OF I'HOCKKDINGS

Sir WILLIAM LYNE : Then you create a complication at once, because you cannot do it to British ships, and you shipowners come down and say, 'Why donjl you "put Hies, foreign ships on the same basis as ours"? The (HAIRMAN :We have done it. Of course we can do it; you can impose the same obligations on the foreigner as you are imposing on us. Sir WILLIAM LYNE : It was stated in reference to the load line and the storm-line that we could not impose it on foreign ships. The CHAIRMAN : I have no recollection of that. Mn. WALTER -I. HOWKLL: I think Sir William Lyne must be thinking of a light load-line. Sir WILLIAM LYNE : 1 was not. The CHAIRMAN : I have no recollection of that statement being made. Siu WILLIAM LVNE : It was. The CHAIRMAN : By the Imperial Act we- have a right to impose a load-line on the foreign ship corresponding lo our own. Mn. lIAVKI.OCK WILSON : In British ports. The CHAIRMAN : We can pass an Act corresponding to that. Mil. HAVELOCK WILSON : 1 may tell Sir William, the British shipowners will support him because they haveadvocated that in the House. Sir WILLIAM LYNE : The only question is the power. The CHAIRMAN : I understand from Sir Joseph Ward that he accepts in principle Resolution 3, only he wants to make it perfectly clear. Ihat we extend the same, I won't say courtesy, but the same conditions to Australian and New Zealand snipping as we invite them to extend to us. I think we ought to take time to consider a form of words. Could we postpone this till after lunch, and in the meantime try and consider a form of words. Sir WILLIAM LYNE: I don't object to it, but I think it is only casting a reflection on what has been said. Mr. FERNIE: The British shipowner wants to be reassured on this point, because he will only see the bare resolutions which have been passed in this respect. Sm WILLIAM LYNE : If it is carried, I wish to put in : "That it is desirous that obligations," and you say " should not." I wish to put in more tentative words. Mn. LLEWELLYN SMITH : Say " It is desirable." The CHATRMAN : Sir William Lyne suggests that we should say, " that it is desirable that the obligations " imposed." Sin JOSEPH WARD : I agree to that. The CHAIRMAN : The resolution will then read:— "That it is desirable that the obligations imposed by " British, Australian, or New Zealand law on shipping " registered in the United Kingdom should not be more "onerous than those imposed on the shipping of any " foreign country." Mu. LLEWELLYN SMITH : I am afraid if we put in the word " British " it would do you some damage. It might relax a lot of restrictions. Sm JOSEPH WARD : Might it not do the same in Australia? Mr. LLEWELLYN SMITH : I don't think so. Siu JOSEPH WARD: Very well, if you say, "That " it is desirable that the obligations imposed by Australian " or New Zealand law on shipping registered in the United " Kingdom should not be more onerous than those imposed "on the shipping of any foreign country," I agree.—(The resolution was then carried unanimously.) The CHAIRMAN : Now No. 4 :—" That, with a view "to uniformity, it be a suggestion to the Australian and " New Zealand Ministers that in exercising any powers

OF THE CONFF.RKNCE.

"conferred on them by legislation to make regulations "with regard to matters affecting Merchant Shipping, " they should have regard to the ecu responding provisions "of the Imperial Merchant Shipping Acts or Regulations "made thereunder, so far as circumstances permit; and "that at least three months' notice should be given "before any such regulations come into force. Sir WILLIAM LVNK : Now, I'd like to know in line :t where it says. " in exercising any powers conferred on "them by legislation," what legislation does that refer to? Mn. LLEWELLYN SMITH : Local, Australian, or New Zealand legislation. There are a number of clauses, Mr. President, in the Australian Bill —I do not know how far they are reproduced in the new Bill —and there are a good many sections in the New Zealand Act which give power to the Minister to make regulations. It is a very necssary power. It is a power given in our Act, but some of cur shipowners have been very apprehensive as to the possibility of want of uniformity resulting from those regulations. We have been discussing general principles, arising out of the Act and Bill because we have no regulations before us. This was merely intended to be a suggestion which might be put. perhaps, in better language, that.it is desirable that uniformity should be loot in view, so far as differences of circumstances permit. I don't think this goes beyond that. It is not the intention to go beyond. It was a suggestion that the corresponding regulations might be taken into consideration when framing them. Mr. COX :It is merely a matter of language The same thing can be put in various different ways. If there are three sets of regulations, a shipowner naturally wants to know where he is. but il thev are practically the same, he knows where he is, and it is just as easy for him to conform to the one as to the other. Sir WILLIAM I.VNK : I want it to be clearly under stood we already have the three months. Hon. W. M. HUGHES : I want to know, is it our ordinary three months' notice, or do we give three months' notice, too ? Mu. LLEWELLYN SMITH: T am not quite sure it is not only two months. Our shipowners want to know of the new regulations in time to comply with them, and they will be satisfied with three months.—(The resolution was then agreed to.) The CHAIRMAN : No. 5 :—" That it be a recommen- " dation to the Australian and New Zealand Governments "that if conditions are imposed by local law on vessels " incidentally engaging in the coasting trade in the course "of an oversea voyage, care should be taken that these "conditions should not be such as to handicap these "vessels in their trade." Sir WILLIAM LYNE : Well really, I don't think we ought to agree to that, because we cannot tell. There may be cases where a question may be raised that does handicap, and it may handicap, and we will very likely pass regulations tttat the ship will be handicapped, and then it comes into a question of opinion, and so far as I am concerned, I do not care. Mu. LLEWELLYN SMITH : I am sorry to hear it. It is a matter that has excited considerable apprehension. W'c have- passed a resolution quite definitely, recognising your power to make these regulations. There is no question of that. The- resolution submitted by Mr. Norman Hill which was not accepted, which asked as a matter of expediency that vessels incidentally engaged in the coasting trade should not be deemed to be in the coasting trade, that has gone. Sm WILLTAM LYNE : What is the interpretation of " incidental " ? You create a trouble. And with the word "handicap," you create a trouble. Mu. LLEWELLYN SMITH : This was only a suggestion, while recognising your power to apply local law. that you should try. as far as possible, to see that the provisions should not handicap our ships. I think it was intended to mean in competition with a regular coaster. They will come under local conditions, hut local conditions may be such, that while quite tolerable for the regular ee.aster, they might impose an enormous burden on the oversea ship that is only for a short time in the coasting trade: for example, a structural requirement might, I