131

H.—2l.

E. H. POPE

137. Is any record kept of the moneys supplied by the public at Christmas time? —I do not think so. 138. Are not considerable sums subscribed ?—-I understand so. Sometimes money is given and sometimes presents in kind. 139. Do you know what the money is given for? —For the delectation of the inmates at Christmas time. 140. Do you know whether the money is spent on them?—l cannot say. 141. Is there no record you ever see in the course of your inspection? —No. 142. Are you aware that part of the money provided by the public at Christmas-time for the delectation of the inmates was spent in putting down a tennis-court?— Quite likely. The position is this : The Matron some considerable time ago asked me about the laying-down of a tennis-court. I said " I do not think the Department will grant you a tennis-court, but why not do the same as you did for a piano—raise half, and I have no doubt the Department will give the other half." So these subscriptions may not have been spent in lollies and that sort of thing, but have formed the nucleus of the fund which the Government subsidised for the tennis-court. 143. Do you think that the money that is subscribed by the public at Christmas-time for the special purpose of giving the girls a treat should be so spent?—lf it was distinctly given for a certain specific purpose; but I do not know that it was. 144. As representing the Department, are you satisfied with the explanation given by Mrs. Branting about that 10s. for dinners?—Of course, I do not pretend for an instant to approve of what the Matron did there. It is inexplicable to me why she did it. Knowing how very straightforward Mrs. Branting is I cannot understand why she did that in the case of a paltry 55., because I have known of cases where she has acted often in such a very different way. I simply do not understand why it should have been done. 145. Do you know anything about the system that is carried on here in regard to discount on the girls' purchases ?—I am quite satisfied with the explanation that has been given. 146. Do you not think it would be better if the girls' accounts were kept quite separate and distinct from the Matron's account? —How do you mean? 147. I understand that the purchases made on behalf of the girls go into the Matron's private account, and the discount of 10 per cent, is allowed on the full amount?—lt is all in the name of the Matron. 148. And it includes her private account? —Possibly. 149. Do you not think it would be wise, in a public institution of this sort, to have the girls' account kept entirely separate from the account of the Matron, so as to show exactly what was done with the discount?— Possibly it would. 150. We had some evidence by the dressmaker that she makes blouses and other things for the Matron: would the Department approve of the dressmaker making clothes for the Matron in Government time? —We would certainly not object to a little trivial thing like that. If you knew the long, long hours the Manager of an industrial school puts in—she is on duty you might say the whole round of the clock—l do not think you would raise any objection. I for one certainly would not. 151. You said just now that you approved of punishment with the strap if a girl absconds?— If a girl absconds —and we all know what absconding means—namely, putting herself into imminent moral danger—l would say, as a last resource, the only thing to be done is to strap her. 152. If this proves to be ineffectual?— Yes; but we have a good many cases where it has done good. You will see by the punishment register that in the majority of the cases only one strapping is given to a girl. 153. Do you think the attendants here should have the right to administer corporal punishment?— Yes, I think so. As a general rule it is not done, but there may be cases where it is advisable. 154. Do you think there would be any advantage in the Matron having to advise the Department in regard to the infliction of corporal punishment in any particular case? Do you think the Department would act contrary to her advice ? —We act on the advice of our officers if we consider the advice is sound, but not otherwise. 155. The I understand this is the only female reformatory in New Zealand? —Yes. 156. Therefore, Te Oranga gets hot only the culls from the other institutions under the Industrial Schools Acts, but the girls whom all the Magistrates in New Zealand consider require reformative treatment? —Yes. 157. Were you aware before the evidence was given in connection with this Commission of the method in which this punishment register is kept?— No. 158. It had never come to your knowledge in any shape or form?— No. 159. Do you agree with me it is absolutely essential the regulation should be strictly complied with? —Quite. 160. Of course, steps will be taken to put a stop to that in the future?— Yes. 161. Has it ever come to your knowledge that there were allegations in regard to boxing ears in connection with the institution? —No. 1.62. That, of course, you would feel called upon to discourage in every possible way?— Yes. 163. In regard to the question of classification, in the light of what Mr. Smail gave us on Saturday, and in the light of the suggestions made by Dr. Alice Moorhouse, I want to know what opinion you have formed, as a man of considerable experience in dealing with these girls, as to the ideal'method of classification, without any regard to cost or any other consideration? —I think there should certainly be four classes. For a long time we thought of being able to do with three, but I am convinced we must have a probationary class, and the building that is now planned has