132

[b. h. pope.

H.—2l.

provided for that. The upstairs part will be devoted to the probationary class, and the downstairs will be for the third class and worst girls. 1 would not put every girl into the probationary class. There may be some who may be so thoroughly bad that the Manager should have power to keep them apart at once from the ordinary reformatory girls. She should be able to put such a girl into the third class straight away. If the girl showed rapid improvement she should advance her to the second class. 164. Would you make the power of moving forward from class to class a most importantauxiliary to the discipline of the institution? —Yes. 165. And would you agree with Mr. Smail as to the special qualities the person in charge of the reception ward should possess of finding the good and eliminating the bad? —I would attach very great importance to that. 166. You know many of these girls have never had a chance?—Y"es. We have cases here where the girls almost from the outset have shown they were amenable to different treatment. 167. Do you think sufficient advantage has been taken of the possibilities of girls after they have been here some time, and showing themselves not very amenable to the treatment and discipline of the Home, being given a chance to show what they can do under different auspices? The particular case in my mind is that of A G . Is that a very uncommon case?— Yes. In former times we took a good deal of advantage of that sort of thing, partly because we were so overcrowded here, but in a great many of these cases they did not answer to the change of treatment. But the case of A G is certainly one where the discipline of the Samaritan Home has been beneficial. 168. Just tell me, shortly, what governs your actions in transferring girls from here to Mount Magdala ?—They are cases of this kind : Where a girl is probably coming near twenty-one years of age, and she is incorrigibly bad, we know that Mount Magdala will take in such a case as that, and will do their best to retain them after twenty-one. In one or two cases they have been successful. Mount Magdala has on several occasions helped us in extreme cases. 169. Do you still retain rights of supervision?— Yes, in virtue of our right to visit any inmate licensed out, we claim the right to visit Mount Magdala, 170. And do you personally exercise supervision?—l have not been to Mount Magdala for some considerable time. Mrs. Branting visits the girls there, and, unless I am very much mistaken, Mount Magdala is also under inspection by the Department of Hospitals and Charitable Aid. 171. What do you pay for these girls? —At Mount Magdala we pay 6s. a week for the first year, and it drops Is. a week every year. 172. But you only send bad cases there? —Very bad cases, or cases where we are absolutely sure control after twenty-one is necessary. 173. And then the girls are licensed out to the directoress?—Yes. Ellen Theresa Branting further examined. 1. The Commissioner.] I wish you to explain this entry in the punishment register : " R C. M. W . Absconding from laundry. Threatens to go first chance she gets. Twelve strokes with the strap. Wearing the punishment dress. Still in cell." What does " Still in cell " mean ?—lt means she was kept on in the cell, and was still there when the report went to Wellington. 2. From when? —I cannot remember. I suppose from the 24th November. I admit that the book should be made up every day, but Miss Hunt as clerk-attendant has had many duties to perform. 3. What is this rough sheet Miss Howden referred to?— Miss Howden used to bring me the sheet that went up to Wellington. 4. Miss Howden attempts to make this point: Before any entries were made in this punishment register she prepared for your approval a rough list of all that was going to be entered, so that you could alter it or approve of it as the case might be before it was finally entered into the register. That is the gravamen of her evidence. Is that true or is that false?—l never altered it. She brought it to me certainly, and I said, " That will do," or " That will not do." 5. Why should you say "That will do" if it was a correct register of the punishments? Because she made it up from her own notes and Miss Hunt's notes and from what I could recollect of what went on during the month. 6. If you inflicted a certain punishment, how did you keep a record of it?—l knew what went on in the month, and I could remember every one of them. If I put a girl in the cell I could remember every case. 7. Did you ever instruct Miss Howden when you saw an entry " In cell " to alter it to " In cell and detention-yard "?—lf I thought a girl had been in the cell and detention-yard I certainly would; but Ido not remember anything about these alterations. I have not the faintest recollection. There was no object in it. I did not want to deceive anybody. 8. Of course, apart from the particular gravity of these cases referred to, the point is that the register is not a correct and fair record of the number of punishments?—l contend that it is. 9. When is this book signed by the doctor?— When she comes every month. 10. What is the value of it?— That she approves of the punishments. 11. She really only casually goes through the bookl—Yes. 12. I want you to tell me what governs your action in respect to letting the girls go out to service? —Their suitability. 13. At what age do you allow girls to go out? If you say you never consider a girl's age in sending her out that answers my question ?—I consider the suitability of the girl and the situation coming forward.