61

I.—sa.

P. T. O'NEILL.

11. And you know that it xvas within a very short time of their leaving that I told you of the conversation? —I am not sure whether it xvas in the morning or afternoon, but 1 am certain it xvas that day, because when the letter xvas sent out in the evening I knexv all about the subject. 12. Is it not my practice that all letters that I dictate and type I send to you?— Practically I see everything sent out by the Department. 13. After they leave you they go to the Record Clerk? —The Record Clerk or Despatch Clerk. 14. You remember my writing that letter of the 29th April?—l remember seeing it after it xvas signed. 15. You have had great experience since you have been Chief Clerk: xvill you tell the Committee what you think of my memory xvith regard to the different matters dealt xvith?—-1 have found your memory equal to most memories with regard to the affairs that take place in the office, and I think it is very much above the average. 16. Have you noticed any signs of it failing at all lately?— No. 17. Hon. Mr. Hislop.] Do you remember Mr. Macdonald and me coming up to your room in June last and looking at that plan ?—Yes. 18. Do you remember what you said about the decimal, '4?— That the point was there? 19. Yes'?— Yes. 20. Do you remember xvhat you said? —I do not knoxv xvhat you are referring to. 21. You said something about it. You remember my asking if I could see the plan?— Yes. 22. And the plan was produced. Do you remember xvhat you said? —I think so. 23. What was it?—l do not knoxv that I can repeat the exact words: as far as I oan recollect I said the point there xvas very Histinct if it had been looked at—if it had been seen. 24. Did you not say he failed to see that point? —Meaning Mr. Fisher? 25. Yes. You remember saying that? —Yes. 26. Do you remember me asking you to show me a letter xvhich it xvas said Mr. Macdonald had written ?—Yes. 27. Do you remember I xvas very much surprised xvhen I saxv it?—l did not notice that, but Ido not think I xvas looking at you at the time. But I remember your reading it carefully and commenting on its contents. 28. Do you not remember that I turned round to Mr. Macdonald and said, " How the devil did you come to write a letter like that? "I —You made some remark of that nature, but I do not knoxv xvhether those xvere the exact words. 29. Who brought in the papers?—l found the papers on my table. 30. Did not a young man come in?— The Record Clerk came in and found them on my table. 31. You remember my saying that to Mr. Macdonald —I remember you making some remark of that character. 32. Did I not further say, "I do not think you ought to have written at all"?—I do not remember hearing that. 33. Nothing of the kind?—l do not remember. It was not said in my hearing. 34. Do you remember xvhat was said—we were there quite a little time? —Yes; I remember shoxving you the letter Mr. Macdonald had written and the letter you yourself had xvritten to the Minister, and the plan. Those xvere the only papers I showed you. 35. And do you remember Mr. Macdonald saying, " Well, that letter of yours, at all events, puts it perfectly plain "? —Yes, I think he said that, 36. And did you not agree with him?—l do not knoxv that I agreed with him. No, I did not agree with the statement. 37. Now, think, Mr. O'Neill, xvas there not a comment upon Mr. Macdonald's letter as being wrong in respect of the four or five perches and generally, and did not Mr. Macdonald make a remark like this : " Well, at all events, your letter puts it very clearly "?—Yes, it is very likely, but I am not quite sure of the exact words used. 38. And did you not acquiesce in xvhat he said?— Possibly I might have done so —I am not quite sure on that point. What I remember making remark on was that the "'4 " on the plan was distinct. 39. Perfectly distinct?— Yes. 40. And you are not so sure as to the rest of the conversation?—l did not hear the asides between you and Mr. Macdonald. 41. Were not the three of us standing together looking at the papers?— Yes. 42. And were you not at as easy range xvith me as Mr. Macdonald?—Yes. 43. And the conversation xvas triangular?— Yes. 44. Well, I xvant to know if you oan stretch your memory back fifteen months—if you Cannot stretch it back to June?—l can remember one remark you made, which xvas after you had been looking at the plan: you made the comment and said, "The brute! He had seen the plan, and said he had seen 4 perches." Then followed my note or reference that the point seemed quite plain. 45. Then we went on talking?— Yes, but I am unable to recollect the whole of the conversation. 46. Do you keep a diary?— Only of important points. Not a diary, but I note certain facts occasionally. I would not call it a diary. 47. What would call it? Have you a book in which you put doxvn leading things?— Yes. 48. Did you put this down?— No. 49. When did you first recall to your mind the fact that Mr. Kensington told you xvhat you said to-day?— Whenever the discussion cropped up as to what had been done in regard to this business.