I—9

24

T. LONG.

32. Speaking as man to man, you think it is necessary to have penalties, and that they should be collected? —Yes. , 33. But you do not think a man's xvages should be followed? —I do not think the employer has any right to deduct any portion of the fines from a man's wages, or that the Government should ask him to do so. 34. Would you not expect it to be the duty of every employer, as every right-thinking man does, to strengthen the hands of the Department in enforcing the law? —If I am ever in the unfortunate position of being fined in a case for enforcement of an award I shall pay it most cheerfully. 35. Is it the duty of every right-thinking man, no matter xvhat position he is in, to strengthen the hands of the Department in collecting fines? —I have already given you a sufficient answer. I have told you that if ever I am in that position I shall pay the fine cheerfully. 36. But you are a good working-man and there are others not quite so good, and we are dealing with them. How are we to deal with men xvho are not law-abiding? 37. The Chairman.] You think the Government should act through machinery other than the employers ?—Yes, we object to the employer having a right for any purpose other than what provision is made for. 38. Mr. Hardy.] Do you think the unions should be made responsible for the collection of fines, and not the at all?— That is not a matter I am prepared to give a definite answer upon. Ido not wish to commit myself without knowing exactly xxhat lam committing myself to. 39. Would it be a simpler method to make the unions responsible, and ask them to collect the fines? Then there would be no prying into a man's affairs. Would you approve of that?— Indirectly I would approve of it. " I have another scheme in my mind's eye. 40. Do you think the unions would be the best persons to collect the fines? —I am not prepared to go so far as to say that. 41. Then you come here and state that fines and penalties are necessary, and yet you are not prepared to say how they should be collected?— Fines and penalties are necessary in all sorts of legislation. All the laws on the statute-book have fines and penalties connected with them. 42. You were very strong on piecework—you do not believe in it?—No, I have seen so much of it. 43. Supposing you were a farmer or farm labourer; you have to deal with a crop, and are asked to put in a tender for falling, stooking, and stacking again : would you be prepared to do that? —I have not the slightest objection to that under the co-operative system. 44. We call for tenders for ordinary farm-work, and it is a common thing all over the agricultural districts of New Zealand: would you oppose that?—l am entirely opposed to piecework. 45. You do not like the feeling that one man is able to earn £2 while another man is satisfied to earn 10s. ?—I never yet met an employer who gave a worker an opportunity to earn £2 a day. 46. Supposing you were a shearer : shearers are paid so much a day or so much a hundred?—■ That is not in my way. 47. This deals with contract-work now, and you were speaking on general principles: supposing a shearer getting £1 a hundred is a good man, and is able to shear 150, whereas a poor man could only shear eighty in the same time and could earn so much less. Would you permit the good man to shear the 150 and earn so much more?—l have stated emphatically that I am opposed to piecework of any sort. 48. You admit you know nothing about the circumstances in other parts of the Dominion xvith regard to farm labourers and shearers, and men who really do not get constant work but xvho want to earn big xvages while they have the opportunity. Would you approve of a man who only got six months' work in the year earning as much as would enable him to keep his wife and family during the remainder of the year?— What is there to hinder him from xvorking in some other direction for the remaining six months? 49. Farm labourers are very often out of work and have very hard times : would you approve of the principle which allows the farm labourer when he is at work to earn extra wages?— Might I suggest that you keep those questions for Mr. Thorn? 50. The Chairman.] Do you mean, in saying that you are altogether opposed to piecework, that you are referring only to those industrial occupations with which you are acquainted?— That is so. Ido not understand the different technicalities of branches of the industry appertaining to farming. 51. Mr. Hardy.] Do you know that there are more men employed in that industry than in all the other industries of the Dominion ?—That may be. 52. Mr. Arnold.] I understand, in the first place, that you say that if .any person commits a breach of an award and is fined, you think the present law is quite sufficient to meet the case?— I do. 53. And you believe in that system of collecting the fine? —Yes. 54. On the other hand, is there anything in the present law to prevent piecework if the employer and employee agree upon that?— Not that I am aware of. 55. You are satisfied with the present law in that direction?— Yes. 56. Mr. Alison.] With reference to piecework and contract work, are you opposed as a general principle to any work being done by piecework or contract?—l believe in the principle of day-labour only, with the exception of work carried on under the co-operative system. 57. And no other exception?—No other exception. 58. Is your Council in favour of the existing Industrial Conciliation and Arbitration Act? —They are certainly in favour of the principle of it; but there are anomalies that require removing, and they, no doubt,, will suggest a little later on what should be done to remove those anomalies.