I.—9a.

28

[E. V. MILLER.

114. Is it or is it not the fact that every man who goes to work at the Chelsea Sugar Works is made aware of the fact that he has to join this society if he wants to remain in the company's employ 'I —lt is not a fact, and it has never been done to my knowledge. 115. The position is put perfectly clear so that there can be no misunderstanding—that upon a man applying for employment and being taken on he is given to understand in a quiet and indirect manner that if he desires to continue in the company's employ he must join the Benefit Society. That is a statement made, not by one man, but by dozens of men at the works? —That is not correct, sir. 116. I would like you to ascertain from your foreman whether there is anything in that statement ? —I would like to explain at this point that on some few occasions when we have had to reduce hands—it is not often done —preference has been given to men who were members of the Provident Fund. That is absolutely the only ground for the statement you have made. 117. The statement has been made very freely in Auckland individually that these are the facts of the case. There is no such condition made when the man starts, but he is quietly told, or it is made known to him, that if he wants to continue on he must join the Benefit Society ?—I have never known that, and it is against my orders if it has been done. 118. The Chairman.] You spoke of meetings which members of the society have held : are those meetings held at times when the bulk of the men can attend ?—Yes, at this last meeting, for instance, I was asked by two members if I would allow the whistle to blow thirty minutes earlier to allow the meeting to take place, and this was done. 119. I suppose many of the men cross from the works to Auckland to go home?— Yes. 120. And the meetings are Ijeld on the works?— Yes. 121. Mr. Alison.] Have you had any indications from members of the Workers' Union that they are opposed to the contracting-out scheme of your company. [I understood this question to read "that the union is opposed to the contracting-out scheme of your company"]? —Absolutely no indication whatever. 122. Mr. Bollard.] Supposing the company did away with the Benefit Fund and Provident Fund and divided the money amongst the subscribers —I am speaking now so far as the Chelsea works are concerned—how would those funds stand as compared with the insurance premiums? Taking the two amounts together the company would have to pay a good deal less. 123. Hon. Mr. Millar.] You will supply- me with your wages-sheet at the Chelsea works, and by that we shall know exactly what the company would have paid?— Yes. It may save misapprehension if I say that in the Benefit Society the different branches are supposed to be financial individually, but the Provident Fund is not divided into branches. 124. We want to know what has been paid at Chelsea? —It will be in proportion to the total amount. 125. Mr. Bollard.] So far as you are concerned you are positively sure that the company would save money by coming under the operations of the Act?—l feel morally certain of that. 126. Then you say you know the feelings of the workers, and can positively assert that they would prefer to remain as they are?— Yes, a very large majority of them would. 127. How long have you been manager of the works? —About twenty-four years now. 128. You ought to know the feelings of the workers in that time? —Yes. Samuel Slimond Kinnairb examined. (No. 8.) I. The Chairman.] What are you by occupation?—Befinerv foreman at the Chelsea Sugar Works. ■ 2. How long have you been at the Chelsea Sugar Works? —Twenty-four years; ever since it started. 3. Do you know anything about the two institutions established there, one called the Benefit Society and the other the Provident Fund?— Yes. . 4. Do you belong to them?—l belong to the Provident Fund only. 5. Do you remember it starting? —Yes, in-1890. 6. And you have been a contributor to it since? —Yes. 7. Are there many of the men who contribute to one or the other?— Yes. I think the numbers contributing to the Benefit Society are 310 or 320, and to the Provident Fund about 110. 8. Are you a member of the union called the Chelsea Sugar Workers' Union?— No. 9. Does that include many of the men, do you know?—l Believe it does. Nearly all, if not all. The sugar-workers are a class by themselves, and there are other men there belonging to other unions. 10. Have you any knowledge of the Chelsea Sugar Workers' Union and its membership?— No. 11. Nothing except from hearsay?-—Only from hearsay. 12. Are you connected as an officer in any way with either of the funds?— Yes. 13. Which one?— The Provident Fund only. 14. Can you give us any information with regard to the Sick and Accident Benefit Society? —Yes. 15. How is it regarded by the men employed at the works?— With very great favour, I think. 16. It meets with general approval?— Yes. 17. Have you heard anything to the contrary? —I do not think so. 18. The fund is working, is it not, under a certificate granted under the Workers' Compensation Act?— That is so. 19. Was that certificate applied for by the men who are members of the fund ? Yes. 20. Of their own volition?— Yes, as far as I know. It was agreed to at a meeting of the men,