1.—12 a.

74

[E. CLIFTON.

G. Have you any idea as to what it would cost to build a shed and yards according to the regulations?—To have fifty cows in at the one time in the shed? 7. Sufficient to have a third of the cows in at one time? —I should say for seven bails you could build what you want at from £7 to £8 per bail—say, £8 per bail. It depends very much on conditions and whether the farmer supplies his own labour. 1 can give you an instance of a shed to accommodate fourteen cows in Taranaki. It is a double shed with a (i ft. gangway. It has a 30 ft. race. It is described by the Inspector as eminently satisfactory. The expenditure on that is claimed to be only £100. I take it that the owner carted all the material. 8. Do you not think it would be an advantage to have plans of sheds? —They are being prepared. 9. Do you not think cleaning the b\'re out once a day is sufficient?— Once a day may comply with the exigencies of the position, but it is most unfortunate that it cannot be done twice. 10. And the milk-cans that are to be condemned —do you not think a man should be allowed fourteen days? —I cannot accept that the cans were to be put out of use to the inconvenience of any dairyman, whether provided for in the regulations or not. 11. What about issuing the certificate to the farm? —It is a detail which is comparatively immaterial. 12. How would you interpret suitable and clean clothing? Would a person be allowed to milk in his usual clothing?— Ordinary working-clothes, decidedly. 13. What about rust? —Inside the can any rust interferes with the condition of the milk. 14. Does not section 23 cover several others?—lt answers most of our requirements. 15. In my district we have« Natives milking cows in the open. Is there any objection to that? —Yes, undoubtedly. I have already told you that where European women and children were concerned there was no intention to interfere with them. When you see cows lying down in a wet paddock, and it is raining, what is the position? A man puts on an oilskin coat, and the water may be seen running down into the bucket. 16. As to lime-washing the shed, do you not think that would be sufficient once a year?—ln many conditions, yes; in other conditions, where the roof is low and where the cows have been very relaxed, it is desirable the walls should be treated more than once. The Department expects once a year. 17. Washing the hands after each cow : would it not be sufficient to say that the hands must be kept clean? — The milker who once accustoms himself to washing his hands after milking each cow manages it very easily. It is very quickly done, and a man who once adopts it would riot milk in any other way. 18. Prohibiting an animal coining within 30ft. of the shed?— This is used in any case it is desirable. It is one of those things in which one must use great discretion. One often sees that the milk-shed is left quite open, and all the animals congregate in it, and it is not unusual to find it converted into a hen-roost. I!). Mr. Witty.] If Mr. Clifton had spoken to the witnesses as he has to us it would have cleared away much misconception?—So far as the explanation of the relation of the Department to milk-supervision is concerned, the leaders of the industry represented that it was at the dairy end where the improvement was required. 20. Your inspectors under these regulations will have a great deal of power. Do you instruct them to use tact? Because more depends on the tact of the Inspector than anything else, and it gets more out of the farmer?— Absolutely so. I am at the close of the instruction classes very often, and the one thing I impress upon the inspectors is that they must use tact. The first thing we ask them to do is to make themselves known to the dairy-farmer, and become acquainted with him, making any suggestions as a friend and adviser rather than as an inspector. 21. There have been cases where inspectors have been rather arbitrary, and this has led to a good deal of friction where tact might have been of use?— They occurred more before the work was so specialised and before they were brought together to understand better the duties we owe the settler. 22. With regard to the short lease, tact especially should be used so as to compel cleanliness without putting a burden on the short-lease tenants?— This is the only line we can work on. 23. You would not force them in the case of a short lease to make extensive improvements so long as they kept their places thoroughly clean and up to date as far as they were able?—l would agree to that so long as they did not conflict with the public health. » 24. You prefer an appeal to a Magistrate rather than an appeal to yourself?—l object to the appeal to myself very much. Speaking of the appeal to the Magistrate I do not want to set him up as an appeal. Let the Inspector bring the case before him when necessary, and let him decide on the evidence presented. The Inspector is just as much on his trial as the settler. There is nothing more against an inspector than bringing an unnecessary prosecution—a position brought about by irritation, or harassing a man, or want of tact—l take it the Inspector is equally on his trial. 25. You know the Magistrate goes by the Act, and the Act says the Inspector should be the judge practically? —I do not want him to be a judge. There are certain things which are purely matters of fact that must in any case come before the Magistrate. 26. In one case at Christchurch the Magistrate said he must convict because he was bound by the Act?—A certain case was tried there in which the counsel for the Department objected to bring evidence in support of the Department's contention because the law was on his side. The case was heard on these conditions. If it were possible to put such a case before the Magistrate where the facts on each side might be considered, that complies more with our general ideas of justice than anything else. 27. As far as possible, you would try to work under the regulations than under the Act— that is, as far as sanitary conditions are concerned? —Yes.