1.—13b.

18

the unit—that is, the number of children per teacher — smaller ; but it' you made it 45 instead of 50, you would nearly double the whole cost. To make Grade VIIIa 281-300 would give an additional cost of £1,290 without the consequential changes, which would be still more expensive. Altogether, the changes proposed would cost more than £20,000 per annum. (In answer to Mr. Hogg): The work of the headmaster in a small school would be lightened by grouping the classes. (In answer to Mr. Mackenzie, on Part V of the Second Schedule, relating to district high schools) : They were getting teachers to take up secondary work in the secondary departments with between 20 and 50 pupils, but he quite admitted the secondary work was not so good as it should be. The average salary of district-high-school assistants was £178 under the Bill; the average under the present scale was £169: there was an increase of £9. He should like to see a substantial increase of the salaries of all teachers oxcept perhaps the headmasters of large schools. The salaries of male assistants in the secondary schools (exclusive of those in the four centres) was £180, practically nearly the same as those of the district-high-school assistants. In his opinion, if they wanted good secondary education—and they all ought to desire it—they must raise the salaries of teachers in the secondary schools and district high schools. All those assistants ought to be paid more than they are receiving now. The average salary of all women assistants in the secondary schools of the colony is £151 (omitting those in the four centres), and of all assistants, men and women, £160; the average salary of the assistants in the district high schools under the Bill would be £178. He would not recommend an increase in the salaries of the district-high-school teachers, unless a similar increase were made in the salaries of the secondary-school teachers. It wowld simply attract the assistants from the secondary schools to the district high schools; nothing would be gained by that. 3. Mr. T. Mackenzie] Do not the district high schools give the only chance for many children to get on a level with children in the more densely populated centres ? Special efforts made by Boards to get country children a higher quality of instruction do not secure it with the present salaries?—l think you would get it if you made the salaries higher all round. You will get a better average salary under the Bill. Mr. T. Mackenzie: The average has nothing to do with it. We cannot get the quality of teaching. 4. Mr. J . Allen.] If nearly half the high schools in the colony have an average attendance of under 30 or about 30, and if every fresh appointment made in these schools involves a fall in salary, do you not think that they are not treated as they ought to be treated ?—No. If under 20 there is a big increase in the salary. It begins at £150. 5. Mr. T. Mackenzie.] Take a fresh appointment in a school of 17?— The salary begins at £150, and goes on by increments of £5 to £180. 6. Mr. J. Allen. J In schools of 31-70, what is the lowest they start at under the Act?—£l9o. 7. What is the lowest under the Bill?—£180. They start at £10 less, and go on to £20 more. 8. What is the reason for starting them at £10 less?— All the teachers in the colony are graded alike. 9. Is the position to be worth £10 less for the sake of consistency? —It is not worth £10 less; it is worth £10 more; the average salary is £200. If you are not going to grade the teachers consistently the principle of the Bill will be destroyed. I cannot recommend an increase in the commencing salary without altering the whole of the schedule. In 100-140, Grade 5, there is a reduction at the starting-point of £20. The average of that grade is £230. My opinion is that all the salaries should be higher. 10. Mr. Hardy.] I notice that you are not increasing the salaries of Inspectors and other Board officers? —The credit balances of the Boards have increased enormously during the last few years. 11. Have (the credit balances not increased by starving the work?— That is not tkue generally. Hon. Mr. Fowhh: In any case, we do not deal with those salaries, but the Boards of Education do. Mr. Hogben (in answer to Mr. Hardy) said the headmasters of large district high schools had their allowances reduced. They would get £480 a year, including house allowance, and he thought that as compared with other salaries that was high enough. If the schools and secondary departments were large, separate secondary schools should be established. The headmaster who had a primary school of 700 had quite enough to look after. He (Mr. Hogben) would aboilsh the connection between large primary schools and secondary departments. Primary schools of over 700 and eeoondarv departments of 140 or 150 should not be linked together. It would be a very exceptional mill) who could properly look after both. 12. Mr. Hardy.] But there are exceptional men in the colony?— Yes, but we should not make schools for that class. We could not expect generally to get men like that. 13. The head teacher in these large schools is really getting the Irishman's rise?—He is getting £480 ; and present holders are guarded. Mr. Hogben (in answer to Mr. Allen, and referring to note (a) ) said the head teacher of a district high school started at the minimum of a grade higher (£3O higher) than if he was not headmaster of a district high school. Hon. Mr. Fowlds: Suppose a school of the 7th grade, where the teacher is getting £310, in made a district high school, he would start at the maximum of Grade 8.