H.—24.

A. J. MCCREDIE,]

87

myself, and doubtless by others in my position, in the use of New Zealand timbers for sleepers is tliat these timbers, except for one of the rare timbers in New Zealand, are very soft; and, as a result of that, they are not economically useful for railway sleepers. The rails cut into the sleeper very badly, more particularly with the softer timbers; and the dog spikes which fasten the rails will not hold as well as they will in harder timbers. I presume that can easily be seen. Undoubtedly the life of New Zealand timber is very much increased by the use of creosote. I am quite prepared to see this class of timber which we have been creosoting last at least twenty years. 5. Mr, Arnold.] An extended life of twenty years?— No. 6. Twenty years against what? —As against perhaps an average of six or seven. Of course, the works were only purchased in 1901—that is, eight years ago —and we have still got to go through the balance of thai twelve years to see whether my estimate is right or not, but that is what I expect it to be. A life of five or six, or perhaps seven years at the outside, is what I consider the average life of a sleeper cut from the bush in this district. I think I made it clear that we have not been using the colonial timbers uncresoted for some years. We have not only to consider the durability, but we have to consider the wear on the sleeper. It is not only that a sleeper decays with us, but there is the fact that it is worn out in other ways by the rail and the fastenings. Technically we call it cutting in—the rail cuts into the sleeper. 7. Hon. the Chairman.] How do the prices compare, including the creosoting, as against the other timbers you use for sleepers?—Do you mean imported timbers? 8. Well, imported or others? —Of course, we are using no colonial timbers in this district except that which is creosoted. The price which I have worked out for creosoted sleepers completed at the works at 3s. ljd. each. 9. Mr. Leyland.] Does that apply to 8 in. by 5 in. ?—Yes. The average post of jarrah sleepers landed here is 3s. 9d. 10. Mr. Field.] How much of that 3s. is for creosoting?—ls. Bd. for the sleeper and Is. 5Jd. for the creosoting. The cost of the jarrah sleeper is 3s. 9d., but they have varied from 3s. 6d. to 4s. I consider 3s. 9d. a fair average price delivered at the Bluff. 11. Hon. the Chairman.] What do you consider the difference in the life of a jarrah sleeper from a creosoted sleeper?—l consider that a jarrah sleeper should last twice as long as a creosoted sleeper. I consider a first-class jarrah sleeper such as we buy should last forty years. 12. What price do you pay for these sleepers before creosoting?—We pay Is. Bd., and the creosoting costs us Is. sjd. I may mention, perhaps, that in buying sleepers for creosoting we do not demand the best timber. We are willing to take half sap. The contract is for sleepers. The price of Is. Bd. is a recent increase. For many years the price was Is. Gd., and when the works were first purchased by the Government I could iget sleepers as low as Is. 3d. There is a little less than 25 cub. ft. in a sleeper : actually there is 23J ft., which at Is. Bd. is equal to about 7s. 2d. per hundred feet. 13. Would the Department use more of them if they got them at a less cost?— Personally 1 cannot say, because that is a matter that rests with the Head Office. I only purchase subject to approval from the Head Office. It would be for the Head Office to say in what proportion they would be used. 14. We can get that information at the Head Office?— Yes; it is a question of policy. Personally, I do not mind saying that, from my point of view, I would have as few as possible of New Zealand sleepers. I would not make any mystery about that. The more hardwood sleepers I can get, the better order I can keep the railway-track in. 15. On straight runs, would they not do fairly well? —No, we are still troubled with cutting-in, and the difficulty of making the fastenings hold. I think the jarrah sleeper would last twice as long as the softwood sleeper. I mean that there is actually more in it than the time it would last, because I should not have the trouble with the hardwood sleeper in keeping the track during the life of the sleeper that I should have with the softwood. The hardwood sleeper will, of course, eventually have to be taken out on account of decay, pure and simple. The softwood sleeper will have to be taken out because I can make no further use of it, although in many cases the timber is good. That would particularly apply to totara sleepers. IC. What would you substitute—steel?—No; personally, I prefer the hardwood-timber sleeper to the steel sleeper. I may say, however, I have had no experience of steel sleepers, and I am depending for my opinion on what I read. 17. Are you using some beech sleepers? —No, except experimentally last year. I have had a few put through the oreosoting-works to see if the process will do anything to improve them. Our experience of the beech sleeper has been a very unfortunate one. The beech that you get splits verjbadly, and is therefore unsuitable. 18. Would not the splitting depend a good deal on how it was cut?—lt might. I have seen a few cases where beech sleepers lasted very well, but generally the result has been very unsatisfactory. From my experience, I could not possibly recommend the use of beech for sleepers. 19. Which of the New Zealand timbers, in your opinion, is the most suitable for sleepers? — Of the New Zealand timbers puriri is the best. The totara is really the only timber in Southland suitable for sleepers. 20. Mr. Jennings.] Do you get any puriri sleepers?— Not now. In the north, doubtless, they still get them. The matai sleepers have been used considerably of late years ; but we have had to abandon them altogether, because, although you would occasionally get consignments of matai sleepers that would turn out all right, you would as a rule get very much worse results from matai sleepers than from other sleepers. I have taken matai sleepers out of the track in loss than two years after they were put in, totally decayed—not one, but hundreds of them. At the same time, I have seen matai sleepers that have been in the track for twenty-five years and are perfectly sound. It is a very disappointing timber to deal with for sleepers. Even the best experts that I have known