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have in the yard is 10 by 6, and the waste is heavy. It may vary 2 ft. in the length. It is a very moderate estimate. 79. Then I put the selling-price at £1 125., less 10 per cent, and 2J per cent., being £1 Bs. Id., that leaves Is. 7d. ?—That is about what I have. SO. Out of which you have to pay for travellers' expenses, rates, taxes, insurance, fire, and accident?— You have missed one important factor—bad debts. 81. Is there any exaggeration in that statement? —No; we have got to work for a very small margin, and to turn over very big quantities to make a profit. 82. Is kauri an important factor in your business? —As a matter of fact, I would not mind if I never saw kauri. 83. You say Oregon takes the place of kauri?— Yes. 84. Also in manufacturing purposes? —Yes, in some instances. 85. And you have to supply long lengths?— Yes. 86. Touching the duty as between small and big sizes, do you say that it would be fair to reduce the duty on big sizes of Oregon ?—Yes. 87. There is a rate and a half on the railway?— Yes, ]ust introduced. 88. The point I want to show is that it would be a fair thing to take the duty altogether off the large sizes? —Yes, for the same reason that in the case of a mill going straight ahead, you will certainly buy better if you are getting the bigger sort. 89. These sizes are charged more; they come up as much as two-thirds increase? —Yes, in the longer lengths. 90. Is not Oregon going up in price?— Yes. 91. Wo should practically prohibit the importation of long lengths in Oregon?— Yes, but there is still rimu as against Oregon. 92. With reference to the seasoning, you expect to get all your timber here?— Yes. 93. It is the sap that is so very important to be seasoned?—ln all timbers. 94. The orders that are going forward now, and the question of what it costs you now, would not give the Commission an idea of what it would cost you to buy it to-day? —No. 95. With reference to the effect of Oregon on the sawmilling industry, the output is 432,000,00 ft., and the import is 20,000,000 ft.—that cannot affect the industry of the colony more than 5 per cent. ?—That does not require proving. 96. If it be proved that ihe bulk of the Oregon is only taking the place of the shortage of kauri, the effect is infinitesimal? —If it could be proved, yes. As far as Otago is concerned, that is correct; as far as Canterbury and further north are concerned, I could not say. 97. Then this is a bogey. The output of the colony for 1895 was 191,000,000 ft., in 1907 it was 413,000,000 ft. Do you think that the importation of the quantity of Oregon I have mentioned is likely to interfere with the sawmilling industry in New Zealand to any appreciable extent ? It has been proved in all countries that the ratio of output is out of proportion to the ratio of increase in population. In view of that fact, and the fact that it is taking the place of timber that is rapidly decreasing?—No, and for another reason, too: that the price of Oregon has been lower for the last year or two than ever before, but it is gradually going back again. 98. When you buy the whole contents of the log and go to sell it again, have you not some lines still left on your book?— There is always waste. 99. So that you do not get your price for the whole contents of the log?— No. 100. Then, bearing in mind the easy way a sawmiller has of getting rid of his timber, might it not be fittingly described as sawmilling made easy?— Undoubtedly. 101. Mr. Clarke.'] With regard to seasoned timber, is it your experience that the Oregon you have imported has been fairly dry?— Yes. 102. Then the fears that were expressed by the Chairman are not warranted by your experience?— What fears were those? 103. Do you think there is any likelihood of any worse timber being cut now from America? —As Mr. Leyland pointed out they are dealing largely with heart-woods; in New Zealand we are dealing with sappy woods. 104. Mr. Leyland.] I want to point out that if j-ou hold large stocks it entails further seasoning all the time? —I might point out that some has to be seasoned for a long time. * 105. Mr. Clarke.] Assuming that Oregon was 14s. 6d., that would not alter the circumstances? —it would. 106. Mr. Morris.] Can you give us any idea of the quantity imported or used in the City of Dunedin ?—I could not give that only approximately, but you can easily get it from the Railway and Customs returns without difficulty and without my making a hazard. 107. Do you think Oregon will increase in the future?—l do not think so materially, as far as we are concerned down here. 108. I think we might presume that the reason why you could import dry Oregon lately was owing to the large stocks held? —That has assisted. 109. Do you generally get dry kauri when you get it down here?— Not as a rule—sometimes; but, practically speaking, it is not fit to use; it has got to be seasoned. 110. I thought you put down three months as the time?— That is so. 111. I find that I have to keep kauri for twelve months before I could use it for joiner's work? —Even then it will alter. 112. Do you not think that-for the small sizes mentioned here rimu would do as well as Oregon I —No, it does not retain its shape ;it twists and curves more than Oregon does. That is where the difference between that and red-pine is noticeable. 113. Do you use any West Coast timbers round here?— Yes. 114. What is the freight?— Three shillings. It rises on the widths and lengths.

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