L— sb,

2

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.

WfinNESDAY, 3bd August, 1910. Mr Forbes There are a number -of gentlemen here who have come as witnesses from the local bodies to place their representations before the Committee. We have heard the report of the Department in connection with the claim, and these gentlemen will present their side of the question. The hands Department say that it is a matter of law 1 understand that it is the function of a parliamentary Committee to report as to the equity of a matter placed before them. If there are legal difficulties, these do not prevent them from arriving at a decision in the interests of justice. These gentlemen will give evidence in support of their claim for just consideration. The petition asks that the matter should be referred to arbitration, and I think that is the consensus of opinion among the local bodies—that they would be quite willing to submit to a decision arrived at by arbitration. It is a grievance of very long standing The last of the land on which thirds were due was alienated in 1896—fourteen years ago—but ever since then there has been an agitation going on for the payment of these thirds. I will not go into the details of the matter because they will be dealt with fully by the witnesses, who are now ready to give evidence. John O'Hallop.an, Chairman of Local Bodies called to consider the Question of thirds, examined. (No. 1.) Hon. the Chairman We shall be glad to hear you. Witness On the formation of road districts in Canterbury the Road Boards were given a statutory interest in the proceeds of lands within their areas for accepting the responsibilities of roading them. I was in the Ashley district before it was a road district. Two men came there from a very long distance to road it, and the expense of sending them up and withdrawing them was a very'considerable item, and very little work was done when they came, so it was decided to form the Ashley Road Board. The Road Board was formed, and under the statutes under which we took the responsibilities of roading there was a provision giving us 25 per cent, of the Land "Fund. We took the responsibilities of roading that district on that understanding, and on that understanding alone. That was the position, that when the land was sold 25 per cent, of the proceeds was placed to the credit of the Road Board, and the Road Board had the responsibility of roading the area within its district. As far as we are concerned that position has never been disturbed by us. We have had the responsibility We are roading all the time as far as we can raise funds. That state of affairs remained until the Stout-Vogel Government made the Midland Railway reservation. The making of the reservation did not disturb our position, and we kept on working away roading our district. It was to our interest to road it, because as we did so people came in and took up land, and we got 25 per cent, of their purchases. Well, this reservation was made, and out of upwards of 200,000 acres in our area possibly 75,000 acres were bought, and on that 75,000 acres at £2 an acre the amount would be £110,000 On that, fourths were about £35,000. We built eight or ten thousand pounds' worth of bridges. We were developing right and left, believing that no authority or Government would allow our first arrangement to be broken through, or our percentage of the revenue from the lands to be interfered with without our knowledge. VYell, the railway was pushed on and the purchases were stopped. The land could not be sold, and consequently our funds remained at a standstill. This 25 per cent, was for roading The rates were for maintaining the roads. The rates are now only able to meet maintenance. Our population has not increased for the last twenty years, and we attribute all this trouble to the stoppage of the thirds (or fourths). Mr Seddon said that Parliament took our thirds. He declared that in 1899 to a deputation, and it is in the records of the House. Parliament, lie said, took our thirds, and he had no objection to our getting them back if Parliament thought proper If Parliament, when they made the reservation of all these lands, had taken the responsibility of roading them, or had given us a fair proportion in the Crown lands that they reserved, the bargain would have been broken, but broken fairly and honourably But they did not ask ou»' consent at all when they were making the reservation. We had a one-fourth interest in the lands that they reserved for the railway company, and Parliament not only gave its own interest away but also our one-fourth interest. This we think they had no right to do. Without our consent being obtained, Parliament withheld the money for our reading, and gave it over to the Midland Railwa)' in order to cheapen that for the rest of the colony, and Parliament left us the responsibility in connection with the roads, which responsibility has been crushing us ever since. Our population has decreased, the progress of the district has been hindered, and our cultivation now is twenty-five miles nearer the centre than it was in those days. In May 1896, the Hon John McKenzie said that no cash was received for the lands that went to the Midland Railway Company, and there was not any to give. The question is, was our consent as a local body given? We had a third or a fourth claim to the lands. Our consent was neither asked nor given; so that interest in the lands was actually confiscated, and the responsibilitjr of roading was left to us. In November, 1896, Mr. Seddon came to the Water-supply Board, ami it was understood that we should not get thirds from him without the consent of the Cabinet. Tic