8

[P M. MACKAT

I.—9a.

150. If we have not got it, do you object to our getting it?—l say, as I said before, you are perfectly justified in doing everything to conserve the public safety 151 Is that your answer? —Yes. 152 You consider that we are justified in taking power in this Bill to examine the brakes existing on the Auckland trams at present?— You have the power, and can take it again. 153. Do you object to our taking it again? —I cannot object. 154. Then why do you object to our having the power of inspection?—l am not objecting to you having the power of inspection. 155. You have no objection to clause 3 of the Bill, then? —Of course, this power has been held by the Council under its deed of delegation. 156. Have you any objection to clause 3 of the Bill after the evidence you have already given? No. Of course, there is a possibility of conflict between the Council and the Minister if he insists upon one thing and the Council on another —if he is at variance with or is antagonistic to the opinions of the Council. 157 But that is merely a contingency?— Yes, which is likely to arise. 158. Mr M Myers] Will you look at section 217 of the Public Works Act, 1908? Mr McKenzie has put it to you that the only power that the Government have under the present legislation is to stop the whole of the tramway Will you read section 217, and see whether it is not the fact that the Minister has the power to stop the use of the rolling-stock or any part of it without stopping the tramway? —Yes. Section 217, ' (1 ) The Minister may cause an inquiry to be held, in such manner as he thinks fit, as to any accident referred to in the last preceding section , and, for the purpose of preventing the recurrence of any such accident, may direct the proprietors of the railway to make such alterations as he thinks fit in the construction or equipment of the railway, or of the rolling-stock, plant, or machinery employed thereon or in connection therewith, or in the method of working the same, and to discontinue the working of the railway, or the use of such rolling-stock, plant, or machinery, or the method of working the same, as the case may require, until such alteration has been made." 159 And subsection (2), you will find, provides a substantial penalty do you see that?— Yes. "(2 ) If any such direction is not complied with, the proprietors of the railway shall be liable to a fine not exceeding two hundred pounds for every day during which such non-compliance continues. 160. Do you say, therefore, that the Minister has power to stop any particular car or cars from running*without stopping the whole of the tramway?— Evidently, from section 217 161 Eon. Mr E McKenzie.] That is after an accident. Not at any other time but immediately after an accident? —I cannot say 162 Mr O'Shea.] You stated to Mr McKenzie that you would have no objection to the Government granting certificates? —Dominion certificates. 163 Have you ever considered what would be the effect of the Government granting the certificates in the event of the men striking?—l have not looked at that contingency 164. If I say that the men, if clause 2 were allowed to pass in the Bill, would be able to hold up every tramway service in the Dominion, will you disagree with me?—l cannot disagree with you. Joseph John Walklate examined. (No. 2.) 1 Mr M Myers ] You are general manager and engineer of the Auckland Electric Tramways Company (Limited)? —Yes. 2. I think you have had a great many years' experience in connection with the construction, and working, and management of electric tramways I—l1 —I have. 3. About how many? —Twenty years. i. Your experience, I think, covers practically the whole period from the commencement of electric tramways? —Yes, practically 5. How long have you been general manager of the Auckland system?— Over three years. 6. I want to deal first of all, quite shortly, with the brake question, and to get rid of it: At present you have your cars operated by a wheel brake worked by hand, a track brake, and the ordinary electric brakes?— That is so. 7 These brakes were passed in the ordinary course by the Government officials of this country? —That is so. 8. A question was raised by the men, I think, who complained that the hand-wheel brake took a great deal of energy to work?— That is so. 9. Your company has always taken the view, I think I am right in saying, that the present brake system is safe and sufficient? —Yes. 10. But, notwithstanding that, in order to meet the men's objections and to avoid friction, your company has been prepared to install a different system?— Yes. 11. What different system did it itself propose to install?—The air brake operating on the wheels. 12 That is in addition to your present brakes, is it not?— Yes. 13. In a sense it would take the place of the hand-brake, but you would still have the handbrake for use if necessary ?—Yes. 14. It is very much easier to work? —Naturally so. 15. Would you mind giving me —I do not want you to be accurate to a day —but do you mind telling me' over what period your company has been prepared and willing to put on those brakes? It is nearly two years since it was suggested by the company that we should install the. air brakes. 16. That was opposed, I think, by the Engineer-in-Chief ? —Yes.