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stopped there, because Dunedin had been previously inoculated. Therefore in the three systems the bound book went out at the one particular time. We claim the right of the men to examine the records of the cars, and that is denied by Mr Walklate in his evidence here. I asked him a question, and he said, " I should want to know for what purpose the inspection was." We claim that any man going on duty on a car should be in the position, as of right, to see what condition such a dangerous piece of machinery is in. He has the right to look up his previous records if he has doubts, to see what defects he may have to contend with. We are told that we can view the records, but in my five years' experience as union secretary I have never been given to understand that the book could be inspected, but I had to adopt the " Nioodemus practice,' and go on at night: that is how I got the record placed here. The proposal for the fixed book is a reasonable one—a book for each car, and accessible at any time. With regard to the Appeal Board, I had forgotten a point I should like to mention : Three weeks ago a man was suspended from a mine in the South Island for faulty firing of a shot. An appeal was set up, and the man was reinstated, and the miners, who had ceased work in sympathy with their fellow-employee, went back to work. I take it that we ought not to require troubles of this kind to occur, and with an Appeal Board always in operation it would be a piece of machinery to prevent labour troubles. Now, with regard to copies of Orders in Council to be obtained, it has been shown that the Christchurch union applied for a copy of their Order in Council. They did not know what the provisions were that they were expected to work under, and the point most at issue was whether the employers had the right to send two or three cars out with one conductor, or whether one conductor was to be put on each car They applied to the Minister for a copy of the Order in Council, and were referred to the Tramways Board, where they were told that they could obtain a view of the Order in Council by going to the office. This offer was not availed of It is something like a student who asked his master for the loan of the bellows to blow his fire up, when he was told that if he liked to use it in his master's room he was welcome to it. In this case there is no occasion to have this state of affairs going on We have a right to get the Orders in Council upon payment, and we do not object to pay for them. This is a light provision, and will meet a great deal of trouble that may arise in the working of a system. Take the deed of delegation, and the amount of ignorance—and appalling ignorance—in regard to a deed of delegation. We ought to be able to get a copy, and yet cannot obtain it. In regard to the trouble of last year, the only way in which I could get a copy of the deed of delegation was to apply to an ex-Mayor, who had a private copy of it. These deeds of delegation should be available to the men if they are willing to pay for them. Now, with regard to the right of the Government to interfere in the interests of the community This last week I noticed -a cable message from Melbourne which stated, "In the Victorian Legislative Assembly the Premier (Mr Murray) said the Government would introduce a Bill compelling the Melbourne Tramway Company to run the trams in the interests of the public as well as of the shareholders, by introducing penny sections, and making the rate uniform with the charges in other cities. Mr Murray added that an inquiry into this matter would be made before the Bill was introduced.' This shows that other Governments are alive to the necessity for making provisions in connection with tramway services. I think lam correct in saying that the concession to the Melbourne Tramway Company runs out in 1916. There are only six years to run, and yet the State puts into operation its undoubted right to interfere on behalf of the general public; and this, mind you, is not a rabid Labour Government—it is not Mr. Fisher's Government—it is a State Government of which Mr Murray is the Premier. With regard to municipal ownership, a gentleman who is well known here said to me yesterday, " The whole evil of municipal ownership is that the Corporation will not enforce their own by-laws in regard to the cars." That occurs in municipalities as well as in private companies. We consider gentlemen, that tramway troubles will be a thing of the past if this Bill is put upon the statute-book and we are accused in Auckland of being a very turbulent people. We have had two strikes, and 1 do not know how many Royal Commissions, but we look upon it that trouble will be done away with if this Tramways Bill is passed. The strikes were not against an award or against the Act but were caused by the tyrannical administration of the officials. This has been shown in evidence both in Mr Beaston's case and Mr Herdson's case, and we ask that the Bill be placed on the statute-book in the interests both of the tramway employees and the public. To show that the local bodies are not all opposed to the Bill, we have disinterested evidence from Mr Bond of the Remuera Road_ Board, and he showed us that from their standpoint they are not satisfied with the condition of affairs. The company has not endeavoured to keep to their agreement with regard to services running down Victoria Avenue, and wished to discontinue it; and the residents have a grievance with regard to overcrowding going to the racecourse and Mr Bond's evidence I thmk, is entitled to consideration He is not alone in his opinions on the Remuera Road Board' because I am informed the ex-Chairman, Mr. Dickson, took up the same uncompromising attitude against the tramway company with regard to the tramway agreement. I quite agree with and support Mr Myers in his proposal to amend the Bill with regard to running minimum-fare cars Mr Myers made that application on Friday, and I wish on behalf of the union to support him' Mr Myers, 1 am very glad to see, has been won over in this matter to our side since the start of this mqury When we started, we were told throughout the length and breadth of the land that it was a very serious thing for the Government to interfere with existing agreements and Orders in Council and deeds of delegation, and we took up the position that in the interests of the public this should be allowed. Now we have a Daniel come to judgment in the person of Mr Myers who joins with us to show his perfect fairness; and it must make Mr O'Shea's position untenable in the light rfMr Myers s keen legal knowledge, when he approves of the provision that the Minister has placed m the Bill. Mr Myers: No—that I have suggested should be placed in the Bill. Mr Bosser The Minister has placed that provision in the Bill by giving power to go contrary to an Order in Council where necessary Mr Myers wishes to carry it a little further and I appreciate his position. We support the proposed amendment, and consider it is only'fair to the through passengers. We have had any amount of troublfe with regard to enforcing this very necessary provision. We have had cars going to Onehunga filled with passengers three fourths of