[W SYMES.

46

L—l 4.

11 Were you an individual lessee, or a lessee conjointly with your brother ?—Both individually and in conjunction with my brother " 12 What was your brother's name?— Albert Symes. _ 13 Would you explain as briefly as possible the general position of the west coast Native reserves, and the disputes between, first, the lessees and the Natives, and then between the lessees and the Government?— Well, of course, it was in connection with the land alter the Natives returned from their imprisonment in Dunedin. They leased all the lands they did not require for their own use Before the leases were granted a Commissioner was appointed, called the Native Lands Jj rauds Prevention Commissioner, before whom all leases had to go. A certificate had to be indorsed upon every lease that the Maoris had been paid in coin for their rent, and not in stores or liquor, or in any other way That had to be indorsed on every lease before it could be registered. Ihe leases were registered after that indorsement. Some time after that it was found necessary-I do not know why; I never did know why-to introduce legislation m connection with the west coast [ands A Commission was appointed consisting of Sir Will am Fox and I think, Sir DiUor, BelL 1 think they were the Commission that inquired, but I believe Sir Dillon Bell neve, sat; on the Commission! but that Sir William Fox conducted the Commission alone. The decision of the Commi™ was that our leases were informal-that we were practically squatters squatting on the laidinformally We appealed to the Government, and legislation ensued known as the West CoVst Settlements Reserves Act Amendment Act, 1887 The Commission recommended that the whole ofrtn™ ids should be placed under the hands of the Public Trustee Legislation ensued d they Ire so placed in the hands of the Public Trustee. By the Act of 887 we were empowered to with the consent of the Public Trustee, our leases, and new leases were thereupon to iSSU6 14 At a rent I think, to be determined by arbitration*—Not at first. It was to be arranged between the Nat ye owners the Public Trustee and the lessees. Regulations were gazetted m the efrly Jart of 1888. The Act empowered regulations to be made, and under the regulations an arbitration set up everytUng in connection with the lease We wire g yen one month in which to appoint an arbitrator, and the Native owners 1 the same time If we failed to appoint an arbitrator withm one month, the Governwere g yen the same n we i F arbitrat ion. We appointed our arbir?l that Ts P the lessees The Natives, I think, declined to appoint an arbitrator, and I teHeve the arb trator waT appointed for them by the Public Trustee or the Government. The a bitrators ppointed their umpire. The result was that we had to surrender ™to«*h efore we could proceed to arbitration The arbitration was made in the early part of 1889 We had no title We had to lift the award that was made. The awards were lodged with the Bank of Zealand at Patea, and, I think, the Bank of New Zealand at We all anxious to see what our fate was to be, and we had absolutely no titles because we had sui ""^CrX?" uplift the awards you had to pay the arbitration fees consisting of the fees of ill the arbitrators, both of the lessees, the lessors, and the Court?— That is so. After tne awards were li ted we applied to the Public Trustee to grant leases in terms of the award. There wlroneo^ tw-ceTtainly not more than two-leases signed. I might say that the term was for tMrtvveaiV The award 7 gave us a lease for thirty years so far as the award was concerned. There were two leases signed. A great number of leases were prepared, but after the signing ofTes two tie Native owners lodged a caveat against any further dealings with the leases. Ihe atter «t have come before the Supreme Court, and Mr Hutchison, who was then a member Pari ament-but, at any rate, he was a lessee-in order to bring the matter to a head mo quickly Sal by going through the Supreme Court, and then to the Appea Court moved on behalf or himself and the other lessees that the matter should go to the Appea Court direct. It wen to the Appea Court direct on a particular lease, and the Appeal Court held that the whole, of he protedlngs we c ultra vires. We then approached the Government with a view of it giving v some iclie The next thing that was done was the passing of a suspension Act A suspension let Tas passed in the session of 1889 locking everything up until some time-I think one, two or three months-after the following session of Parliament. Nothing was really done then We LttionerParUamentL-Mr Bell appeared for the whole of the lessees-with a view oi giving us petitioned ™ameni FF or refund rf m we had d rtlhluZlm ofthe awlrd. We got practically no satisfaction from that. The next session I petition was presented, and Mr' Levi appeared for the west coast lessees, with thesame resultpreviously Nothing was done until 1892, when an Act was passed giving the petitions and the litigation connected with 19 A little later res. m , Premier in 1892—the lessees knew that Mr -if I thought I could do. any good or- if I could hen him in any way if I went to Wellington. I said that such was my mtention whether I coufd doany good or harm-I was going on my own. I came down> to Welhngton and saw Mr Ballance, and told him the whole case from start to finish. He said, Well, it is the intention of the Government to try and settle this matter in some way I want you to go and see the pZic Tu'tee Mr Warburton If you do not know him, I will give you a letter of introduction o„ m » I did not know Mr Warburton, and he gave me a letter to Mr Warburton. Be S me that Mr Warburton was preparing a Bill in connection with the leases, and he said,