D.-4

96

F. MANDEK

away from the poor lands to catch a bit of land that is considered good to-day. You have only to taks the case of the land south of Auckland from Manurewa to Hamilton. In the early days, with the exception of a small patch at Pukekohe, it was not considered worth fencing in. But that land is now fetching from £20 to £30 per acre, because the people have got cheap manure and have enriched the land. The sams will happen in the north. There is another point I wish to make, too, so far as the Wairoa side is concerned. I have not got the Gazette by me, but I looked it up when I gave evidence before the Committee in Wellington, and I found that a very large amount of goods came from the south into the Wairoa at a freight of about 10s. per ton. I think fourteen thousand pounds' worth of stuff came in the year before I gave evidence. And, of course, a good deal came from Sydney and Melbourne. That, no doubt, was in consequence of the timber-mills carrying on business and giving return freights. Whether that will continue in the future may be disputed; but I think it will, because I understand a couple of steamers are being constructed now for that purpose. These goods can be delivered at Tangiteroria or at Kirikopuni, or wherever the railway crosses the river, for about 15s. a ton, and the railway could not possibly compete against them. Even if the freight cost another 10s. a ton the railway could not compete against them. My opinion all along, and I have expressed it pretty fully before, is that the Main Trunk Railway should not touch the waterways on either side. It should give equal facilities for the people on both sides, and should go as direct and straight north as possible. I have strong objection personally to any of these waterways being obstructed. The same thing has happened at Whangarei, and it is happening now at Maungaturoto. 10. The Chairman.] How would that apply so far as these routes is concerned? Does it apply to Kirikopuni ?—Yes, it applies to all of them unless the bridge is put high enough or a swing span is put in to allow the trade to go through. I do not think any of these waterways should be blocked. My opinion in regard to the route is this: that the Wairoa from McCarroll's Gap would be much better served by the construction of a branch line, either after the completion of the main line or simultaneously with its construction, from McCarroll's Gap in the direction of the Kaihu Valley Railway, so that the two lines might be connected in the future. It would open up the country much better on the west of the Tangihuas. 11. In other words, you think the Kaihu-Dargaville Railway system should be linked up with the Main Trunk line at McCarroll's Gap I —Yes; and on the eastern side by a connection with Whangarei. 1 think that is inevitable. Of course, I believe that the line originally laid out by the engineers to the east of the Tangihuas would be considerably cheaper. I am pretty well sure it would cost £100,000, more or less, to construct than the route at present laid out. If you make a railway cost more money the interest on that money has to come out of the pockets (if the settlers, and if that railway is going to cost £100,000 mpre to construct than it should do it means another £3,000 will have to come out of the pockets of the people to make up for it. That is not a right principle. I wish to say, in conclusion, I am quite satisfied that if the engineers had been left alone, and if influence had not been brought to bear on them, they would have laid that railway down in the best and cheapest possible way for this country. I do not say that as a reflection on the engineers, but to their credit. They were not left alone, unfortunately. 12. Mr. Evans.] You know this country pretty well?— Thoroughly well. 13. Do you know the western country?—l know the most of it. I have never been up the Kirikopuni Valley. I have been to the western side of the Tangihua Ranges. 14. You have a good idea of the country to the west: what sheep to the acre do you think it will carry at the present time?— Some of it will carry three or four sheep to the acre, and some not more than one. 15. When it is not cleared what will it carry?—lt will not carry any under bush. IC. Do you think the western side will carry more sheep than yours? —I think the western side is more adapted to sheep than ours. The eastern side is more adapted to dairying. 17. 1 suppose you are aware that a good deal of the country is still covered with scrub and timber, and is not carrying anything at the present time?— That is so. That applies to both sides. 18. What do you reckon it will cost to clear the timber country and put it in grass fit for sheep?—£2 10s. per acre. That will not include fencing. 19. With fencing?—lt will cost from £3 to £3 10s., I suppose. 20. You think it can be done for that? —It all depends on the burns you get. There are a lot of contingencies. Sometimes you may lose your burn for a year or two, and then it is a very expensive matter; but under ordinary circumstances you may put the cost at from £3 to £3 10s. 21. What do you think is a fair estimate of the sheep that country will carry when it is cleared? —A sheep and a half to two sheep, not more. It may do more for the first few years, but it will come down to that average. There are some very rich patches, but no quantity of them. 22. Would you be surprised to hear that some of that country carries ten sheep to the acre?—l would not care to buy it at that estimate. I heard of land at Whakatane carrying ten sheep to the acre, but there is no land on the Wairoa side equal to that. 23. At the present time the fern and bush land would not carry anything?—No, except that it is a good run for cattle in the winter. 24. Have you any idea of the amount of Maori land there is in this country to the west?— I do not know, but there is a good deal. 25. Have you any idea of what large blocks the syndicates hold?—I know there are some very large blocks held over there. lam speaking of the western side. 26. Mr. Eonayne.] You said the freight from Auckland to Kirikopuni was about £1 15s. per ton, and that the roads in that direction were good, with the consequence that the settlers