A.^

60

2nd Day.] Imperial Council. [25 May, 1911. Sir WILFRID LAURIER : You propose a new Parliament to be elected by all the Dominions ? Sir JOSEPH WARD : For defence only. Sir WILFRID LAURIER : That can be done without any alteration of the present constitution of the United Kingdom. I cannot see the logic of your position. You propose a new Parliament on top of what we have already? Sir JOSEPH WARD : No. In my opinion, Sir Wilfrid, with all due deference to you, any proposal of this kind presupposes an alteration in the Homeland to a federal system, and in connection with that federal system there must of necessity be a change in the numbers of the great Houses that represent Great Britain and Ireland at the present time. In other words,' if there are Created in different portions of the British Isles separate Parliaments for local government, it stands to reason some alteration would take place in the larger ones that exist for the whole of Great Britain at the present time. I believe, in connection with federation for naval defence purposes of the oversea Dominions, that it is necessary to presuppose an alteration in the United Kingdom itself on some such lines as I have described. The PRESIDENT : I do not want to interrupt you, but for the sake of making it clear as you go along I want to see how we stand. We in the United Kingdom will have to consider how it would affect us. You presuppose what is called Home Rule all round here—that is to say, the delegation to local bodies of all local concerns in England, Scotland, Ireland, and Wales. Sir JOSEPH WARD : Yes. The PRESIDENT : Is your new Imperial Parliament of Defence (I merely ask for information) then to step into the shoes of the old Imperial Parliament ? Sir JOSEPH WARD : Yes- at any rate, ultimately. The PRESIDENT : It is to exist side by side with it ? Sir JOSEPH WARD : If desired, but I want to develop a true Imperial Parliament. The PRESIDENT : But side by side with it 1 Sir JOSEPH WARD : Yes, if you want it for the purposes I have named. The PRESIDENT : The old Imperial Parliament will still go on, under your scheme, representing the different constituent elements in the United Kingdom. Sir JOSEPH WARD : If you had separate Parliaments existing for Scotland, England, Wales, and Ireland on their own account, to a very considerable extent you would alter the position of the old Imperial Parliament, and it might be merged ultimately, at least, into the new one. The PRESIDENT : We should relieve it of a good deal of business which at present it transacts. Sir JOSEPH WARD : Besides the point I am making, in presupposing that the United Kingdom establishes Home Rule all round, as you call it-—I have called it creating separate Parliaments for local government. The PRESIDENT : I use the popular expression.