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2nd Day.] Imperial Council. [25 May, 1911. Sir WILFEID LAURIER—con*. Sir Joseph Ward will forgive me for saying at the outset that the argument which he has addressed to us is not in any way germane to the resolution which he has moved. The argument which he addressed to us is not for the creation of a Council advisory to the Imperial authorities; it is for an entirely different matter. I was not, I may say at once, very favourably disposed towards the resolution as it was moved, but that can be set aside. What Sir Joseph Ward has proposed is not an Advisory Council; it is a legislative body to be elected by the people of the United Kingdom and the Dominions beyond the seas—a legislative body, I say, with power to create expenditure and no power to create revenue. Now, if there is one system which I think is indefensible it is the creation of a body which should have the power to expend at its own sweet will without having the responsibility of providing for the revenue to carry on the expenditure. That seems to me at once to dispose of the matter. This body suggested by Sir Joseph Ward would have the power to sit, I suppose, here in London—or Ottawa, or Wellington, or in Melbourne, for the matter of that, it does not matter —and in its wisdom to say, " Well, this year the British Empire should spend 2,000,000/., 5,000,000/., 20,000,000/. for defence, to be apportioned so-much to the United Kingdom, so-much to Canada, so-much to Australia, so-much to New Zealand, so-much to South Africa, and so-much to Newfoundland "; and then, as I understand the proposal of Sir Joseph Ward, this would be remitted to the respective Governments concerned, and all the Governments would be dumb agents to carry out these resolutions. The Chancellor of the Exchequer would simply have to provide so-much; in Canada we would have to provide somuch, in order that various munitions of war might be purchased, and so in Australia, and so in South Africa, and so in Newfoundland. I must say, with all respect and due deference to Sir Joseph Ward, the proposal seems to me to be absolutely impracticable. Mr. FISHER : Mr. Asquith, I think the remark of Sir Joseph towards the close of his speech affects the situation, and hardly calls for very serious discussion round this Conference table. He said he felt that this was a scheme far in advance of anything that could be expected at the present moment, and that, although all the members might be seriously against the proposal, he was still egotistical enough to think that it was a sound scheme to be submitted to the Conference. I must say I think we must congratulate him on his courage in bringing forward such a scheme. Sir JOSEPH WARD : I did not say that, but, of course, that does not matter. Mr. FISHER : I want to be correct, but Sir Wilfrid has really expressed my own view. I think it is not a practical scheme, if he will allow me to put it in that brief way, at the present moment. I would, like to say in general "terms that I do not think that there is anything the matter with the Empire at the present time except as relating to subsidiary causes that may be easily removed by Conferences such as these. We have ever-extending oversea Dominions. I had the great honour and pleasure towards the end of last year of being present at the creation of a new Dominion in South Africa. That is hardly what we should expect from a system of responsible government which had failed or was breaking down. Changes will always be necessary while progress is made. If we were to take the path Sir Joseph Ward invites us to take, I am of opinion we should retrace our steps early and hurriedly. That is by the way. lam apprehensive of the broad statements made by Sir Joseph about the effectiveness of the two systems of naval defence —the one adopted by his own country, New Zealand, and the other adopted by Canada and Australia. Ido not propose to deal with that question at all. lam looking forward to the opportunity to be available to my honourable colleague, the Minister of Defence, to deal comprehensively with that question. This is not a sitting of the Conference where it could be properly done; the subject is really not before us as a defence matter, although the greater part of Sir Joseph Ward's speech, I think, was founded on the question of a better system of naval defence.