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1 June, 1911.] Declaration of London. [3rd Day. Sir EDWARD GREY—con*. claims before the prize court and rely on getting compensation, and not on interfering by force. That would be the tendency. Then we found at the Hague Conference that there was no general consensus of opinion against the sinking of ships, and that we were not very likely to get general support for that view. Under the Declaration of London we tried to get a rule made that sinking should be entirely illegal. Mr. Batchelor quoted the United States Government in this connection, but the United States Government were not prepared to support us at the Naval Conference in going so far as that, and they were strongly in favour of the provisions of the Declaration of London being accepted with regard to the sinking of neutral merchant ships. So that the position in the first place with regard to sinking is that at the present moment we protest against any sinking. Other nations claim and exercise the right to sink when they are belligerents, and there being only their prize courts to appeal to, we do not get compensation. Under the Declaration of London the right which other Powers have claimed to sink neutral vessels will be restricted to certain conditions to which they have agreed, so that no Power can claim the absolute right which it has done before, and under the Prize Court Convention, if they do exercise this restricted right, there will be an appeal to the international tribunal. That puts us in a much better position. Mr. BATCHELOR : Of course, our position is much easier than other countries, as we have ports everywhere. Sir EDWARD GREY : Eor taking vessels into port? Mr. BATCHELOR : Yes. Sir EDWARD GREY :We secure our object if we capture them. We do not want to sink them. The PRESIDENT : It is not to the interest of a belligerent to sink in ninety-nine cases out of a hundred; on the contrary, it is his interest to take it into port and get the ship and the goods. That is what is often ignored in the discussion of this matter; it is against your interest and you only do it in the case of force majeure. Sir EDWARD GREY : To take Mr. Batchelor's point which he raised just now, of course we should take whatever steps it might be necessary for us to take under the provisions of the Declaration of London, whatever we may have said before about the sinking of vessels. When that is ratified we should claim equal liberty of action for our fleet in dealing with merchant vessels to that given to others by the Declaration. We may have expressed our views before as to what ought to be done, but when yon come to an international agreement, and other people claim certain liberties to themselves and you concede those liberties to them, of course you claim them for yourselves. Mr. FISHER : By doing so you do not abandon those views ? Sir EDWARD GREY : You do not abandon the right to try to get your views adopted at some future time if you like, and you ought to try it at another Conference, Mr. FISHER : You obey the law—you march in line. The PRESIDENT : You hope that it will be improved. Sir EDWARD GREY : So that what we have got with regard to the sinking of merchant vessels is first of all the right which is claimed by other nations restricted, and if that right is exercised at all we get a better prospect of redress by having an international tribunal to go to,