209

A.—4,

9 June, 1911.] Eeciprocity Destitute Persons Law. [6th Day. Mr. MALAN— cont. similar maintenance orders made in any other part of His Majesty's Dominions wherein there is a law in force providing for the recognition of maintenance orders made under the laws above mentioned. In the Cape and Natal Provinces there is a similar provision for reciprocal regulations, but it is limited to provinces, states, or territories in South Africa. It is the intention of the Union Government to introduce uniform legislation for the whole of the Union, and I think that the provisions of the Transvaal and Orange Free State as regards proclaiming regulations for reciprocal treatment or enforcement of orders of States and Dominions that have similar laws with ours .on this point w r ill be incorporated in the Union Act. That would be very much on the lines of the law as it is now in New Zealand as stated by Sir Joseph. The practical side of the matter of enforcing an order, especially when it is far away from the country in which the original order has been taken is a very serious matter. Dr. Findlay, in speaking about the matter, referred to that. There is the question of expense. You are dealing in the majority of these cases with poor people, and unless your machinery is very simple, you may find that putting the machine in motion costs much more than the actual relief you would get. Over against that there is this, that one case actually brought to book may serve as a deterrent for others, and that the indirect effect of legislation of this kind, and taking steps on such legislation would have the desired effect, at all events to a large extent. I see that in the report issued by the Local Government Board in Scotland a suggestion is made that provision should be made for sending a man back to the country in which the original order was taken if he refuses to comply with the order, and that the power of being deported back to the country from which he was emigrated, to where he has left his dependants unprovided for, would be sufficient sanction. Dr. FINDLAY : That is the law now; you overlook the fact that that is the law now under the Fugitive Offenders Act, which is an Imperial Statute. Mr. MALAN : Yes, but that is not the law in the Dominions. Dr. FINDLAY : It is the law in our country. Mr. MALAN : It is certainly not the law in the Union of South Africa. Sir JOSEPH WARD : But I understand that you are going to make it so. Mr. MALAN :I do not know. Ido not know what the law is in Canada nor what the law is in Australia, and I am bringing forward this practical point with a view to getting the Government to send out a circular to the different Dominions suggesting what the lines of this uniform legislation should be. Dr. FINDLAY : Might I just explain that there is an Imperial Statute called the Fugitive Offenders Act; if a man deserts from South Africa and an order is made against him there for deserting his wife, and he deserts to Australia, he may be brought back from Australia to South Africa under the existing law under that Imperial Statute. Mr. MALAN : But supposing the order is taken here and that the man is out in South Africa and you want to enforce the order there, what sanction could you apply to the man there ? We have no law by which you can send the man back here. It is quite true you can get the man back from here to South Africa but not from South Africa to England, and it is with a view to getting similar legislation in all the different parts of the Dominions on this point that I think we have to go a little further into detail than merely affirming the principle. As regards the principle of this motion, Mr. Harcourt, we think that it is quite sound, and, as I say, we intend to legislate in that direction in the Union of South Africa.