A.—4.

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9th Day.] Nationalization of the Atlantic Cable. [15 June, 191 L Sir D. de VILLIERS GRAAFF— conL and see what wireless telegraphy is going to do for us, before the Governments embark upon the owning of the cables as a-State undertaking. Sir JOSEPH WARD : This is only a proposal as to establishing an Atlantic cable. Sir D. de VILLIBRS GRAAFF : But I suppose the wireless system would control the Atlantic as well as our route ? Sir JOSEPH WARD : Yes. Sir D. de VILLIERS GRAAFF : Therefore, what would apply to South Africa would apply to the Atlantic also, in so far as wireless telegraphy is concerned, so that, as far as we are concerned, we counsel you to hesitate before it is gone into. Sir JOSEPH WARD : You must remember that South Africa is not asked to contribute anything towards this proposal. Sir D. de VILLIERS GRAAFF : No ; I say it may be desirable to have nationalization of cables ; but the question is whether this is just the right time to go in for it in view of the development of wireless telegraphy. I see we have a motion coming on later in connection with wireless telegraphy. I have nothing more to say upon this motion. Sir E. MORRIS : I should like to say that to a certain extent I agree with what has been said, that the hope held out by the Postmaster-General as regards the Boards of Control as to rates promises very largely to lessen the objections to the present private-owned cables, and removes some of the strong reasons in favour of nationalization. But I should favour the four resolutions which I take it we are now discussing if they can be accomplished, and if they can be brought about. I agree with the principle that this is a matter which cannot be looked at entirely from a purely commercial standpoint, but there is the question of the development of the Empire which must flow from extension of cables and wireless and land-lines, and also it might be very important in the event of war that we should have control of these cables. Sir Joseph Ward asked the question as to who at present owns the Atlantic cables. I know that nine Atlantic cables pass over Newfoundland to-day. They are owned by the Western Union, by the Anglo-American, and by the Direct Cable Companies. Five of those are British cables, and I understand they aie going to pass into the hands of and become the property of companies in the United States—the whole of them. From the standpoint of prestige, just as we gain considerable prestige by being the largest shipowners in the world, and for many other reasons, it is important and valuable to be able to say that we control the cables, or at least that we have not gone out of the cable business. The Anglo-American Company, owning these five cables, were the pioneer Atlantic cable company, and they do their work under charter from the Imperial Government, and, as a matter of fact, there was a clause in their charter giving the right of pre-emption to the British Government. Whether that exists now or not Ido not know —I am only speaking from memory —but I think there was a time limit, and they had to be purchased out within a certain period. It might yet be important before the negotiations are closed— perhaps it is being attended to at present —that that matter should be taken up. Of course there are cases, and it is easy to conceive of many cases, where it would not be well for the Government to own the cables. First, it destroys