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9th Day.] Universal Penny Postage. [15 June, 1911. Sir JOSEPH WARD— cont. judge as to the time and opportunity, and especially as to the question of funds at their disposal, with respect to how far and at what moment and to what extent the Government would carry out the policy of further postal reforms with reference to foreign countries or the Colonies, and in the matter of the adoption of a universal penny post. It was pointed out that the adoption of the penny rate in its entirety would, involve a charge on the British Government of a very serious sum, and I anticipate the same idea probably will suggest itself in connection with this resolution. Fears were expressed that there would be no hope within a number of years to make up the loss by increased facilities leading to increased business. I want to point out what has occurred since then. Not only has the British Post Office been able to see its way to arrange for the exchange of penny letters between the United Kingdom and the United States of America, but the German Post Office has made a similar arrangement with the United States of America. Here I want to take the opportunity of saying that at the Postal Conference in Rome in 1906 I expressed the conviction that a system of Universal Penny Postage would be an enormous advantage to the world at large, and that the loss of revenue would be but temporary. I propose presently to show that the loss of revenue in every case where penny postage has been carried out has been but temporary, and I think I will be able to justify that. But, judging from the Reports of the British Postmaster-General, the anticipation then expressed appears to be amply confirmed. In speaking on the subject at the Conference of 1907, I suggested that we might find America and Germany entering into agreement for penny postage, and, as I have already said, this has been realised, but it is some satisfaction to remember that the agreement between Great Britain, and America preceded it. Now, from the point of view of New Zealand, and I also believe from that of the Commonwealth of Australia, the weak point with the present arrangement with America is that it is confined to Great Britain instead of covering the countries included in the Imperial scheme. It is quite true that New Zealand has a unilateral arrangement with the United States under which penny letters are delivered in that country without surcharge, but in any case that cannot be looked upon, as far as we are concerned, with any degree of complete satisfaction. In the case of the great Dominion of Canada, it has its own arrangement with America. In connection with the suggestion to include the rest of the Empire, I want to say something with regard to the individual experiences in those countries from the financial standpoint in the matter of loss of revenue, although my proposal now is over a wider area. There was some loss, but we had a quick recovery of our revenue, and we have the two important illustrations of Canada and New Zealand in that respect. I remember perfectly well in New Zealand, when the suggestion of the Universal Penny Postage was being considered, the Postal Department believed we were to make an immediate loss of something between 80,000?. and 150,000 L a year. The first year after that system was in operation our loss of revenue was 48,000 L Here the increase in the correspondence would soon make good the loss, judging by the Report to the year ending 31st March, 1910, of the British Postmaster-General, who, in speaking of the penny postage with the United States of America, said, " Penny Postage " with the United States of America was established on the Ist October, 1908, and the " result has been satisfactory. The arrangement applies to letters exchanged between " places in the United Kingdom and places in the United States, including Alaska and " Hawaii. The latest statistics indicate an increase of the number of letters between " the two countries since the introduction of penny postage of about 25 per cent., a " very satisfactory increase." Now, on the 31st March, 1910, the British PostmasterGeneral stated that the total weight of letters and postcards from the United Kingdom to places abroad in 1909 shows an increase of 10*75 per cent, over the first figures of 1908, as compared with a slightly larger increase, 11-43 per cent., in that year over 1907. The rate of increase remains higher than before the introduction of the present postage rates in October 1907. The amount of correspondence sent by letter post from this country to the United States has increased by about 32 per cent, since the rate of postage was reduced on the Ist October, 1908, and the increase in the reverse direction is about 29 per cent.