W. H. BOWLER.]

51

I.—3a.

submitted to the Department, and 1 understand that Cabinet, after consideration, decided that there was no objection. 178. You understand that it was submitted to Cabinet?—l understand so. 179. And there was no objection?—No departmental objection. 180. What is the actual acreage that is covered by the transfer? —I gave the area yesterday. 181. The whole area that was the subject of these resolutions was included in the transfer? —Yes. 182. Have you had any subsequent transactions as trustee?— Yes. 183. What were those? —Sundry mortgages. 184. You have mortgaged the land ? —Yes. 185. To whom? —I really have not the information here. I would suggest that Mr. Dalziell could furnish all information. 186. It has been stated that the land is held in trust, and it is part of our business to find out whether it is still held in trust. You are the trustee, and you have mortgaged the land?— Yes. 187. I see from the register that on the same date —Bth July —there is a mortgage from you In William Nelson, Douglas McLean, Mason Chambers, Vernon Chambers, Paul Hunter, Robert McNab, and C. A. Loughnan, over a portion of the land : is that so? —Yes. 188. Do you remember on what date you signed that? —On the same date as the transfer, I take it. 189. What was the amount of the mortgage-money?—l could not say without reference to the deeds. 190. You have no recollection? —No. 191. You signed the deed, yet do not remember?—l do not remember the amount. 192. What was the object of mortgaging?—l do not know. I was simply a trustee for the bare execution. I was only an instrument to execute the deeds. 193. Who suggested that you should mortgage the lands?—lt was all part of the arrangement entered into by the parties, and it was not my function to analyse 194. But you are one of the parties ?—No, only in name. 195. I thought you were acting as trustee? —Yes, but only nominally as trustee. 196. You are still acting as agent to look after the Natives' interest?—l am simply there to see that the land is cut up in three years. 197. But supposing it is not cut up in three years? —I am there to cut it up. The Board can cut it up if the company do not do so. The title is caveated by the Board. 198. You told the Committee that you signed a mortgage, but do not know what the amount was? —Yes. 199. And you also signed another mortgage to Mason Chambers of another part of the land ?—Yes. 200. What is the object of that?—l do not know. 201. Do you know for how much the land was mortgaged to William Nelson, Douglas McLean, and the others? —I said Ido not know the amount of the mortgage. 202. Do you know how much of the land is mortgaged?—l did not analyse the transaction at all. 203. Did you receive any mortgage-money as trustee?— No. 204. Do you pay the interest? —No. 205. You are the registered owner of the land : if you mortgage it must be for some purpose? —The mortgage was no doubt for the purpose of finance. 206. But you mortgaged the land in your capacity as trustee for the Natives? —Not as trustee for the Natives —trustee for the purchaser. lam holding the land simply to see that the limitation provisions of the Act are enforced. 207. Are you trustee for the Natives or for the purchaser?— For the purchaser. 208. If it is stated that the land is held by the Maori Land Board in trust, that is quite incorrect? —Quite incorrect. 209. You, a Civil servant, hold it in trust for the purchaser—for Herrman Lewie?— Yes, or his assigns. 210. And in that capacity you executed two mortgages, but did not take sufficient interest in it to see how much money it was worth ?—No, it did not interest me at all. 211. Supposing the mortgage is not paid, what is your position?— Our position is not altered. 212. I mean your own position? —I am only the bare trustee. I can resign at any time. 213. But you are the registered owner? —Under a deed of trust. 214. Supposing the mortgages were not met and foreclosure took place, or a sale by order (if the Supreme Court? —I could get out of it by resigning, and thus let it be somebody else's funeral. Mr. DahieU: It might save a good deal of time if I point out that the whole proceeding is set out in the agreement which has been produced. 215. Mr. Herries.] I am trying to get at the peculiar position that a Civil servant is placed in. In the event of the mortgage being foreclosed 3011 say you would resign : then all the provisions to insure cutting up would go?—I had legal advice, and took every precaution to see that my interests were safeguarded. I left the matter mainly to my solicitor. The Hon. J. A. Tole acted for me in the matter, at the expense of the purchaser.