I.—3a.

56

[c. h. hardy

11. It was a meeting? —Yes, it was a meeting of the Native Land Board this time. I was not present, but he was represented by Tuiti Macdonald, who is a sort of Native counsel. I understood all that was going on, but I did not take an active part. 12. Can you give us the date, approximately, of that meeting?—l think it was either in December or early in January. 13. That was a meeting of the Maori Land Board? —Yes, I believe so. Mr. Skerrett was there, but I did not see him. 14. Was it not a meeting of the assembled owners? —Perhaps it was. I think it was. 15. Do you mind going on?— After that a deputation of Natives waited upon me at my house, and showed me a report by the Maori Land Commission, I think it was —a report by the two Judges, Chief Judge Palmer and Sir Robert Stout. They also showed me an opinion on the position by Mr. H. D. Bell. They said that there was no one in Te Kuiti who could adequately represent their case, and that I would be a suitable person to do so, and asked me if I would do it. 16. When you say they " represented their case," what do you mean?— They were not quite satisfied that they were getting justice done to them. They had an idea that they should retain their land, and wished me to look into the matter and advise them. This was on a Sunday. I said that I would read through the reports and meet them in the evening at 7 o'clock, which in due course I did. There was rather a large attendance of owners from all round—not in the large meetinghouse there, but in a pretty large building; and everything was thoroughly discussed by them. Tuiti Macdonald was present. After everything had been thoroughly discussed by them I said I should be pleased to go to Wellington to advocate their cause with Mr. Bell, and do what I could for them. 17. You came to Wellington? —In due course I came to Wellington. There was no committee formed then, but I met here in Mr. Bell's office four or five Maoris —Tuiti Macdonald, Aterea, and others. We approached Mr. Bell and asked his advice. He made a desultory statement with regard to the position, and said that if we wished him to undertake the case we must first provide £100. He said he had not very much faith in the report of the two Judges —he thought they were not altogether correct in their conclusions; but, he said, he would discuss the matter further when we returned, as we proposed to go outside and have a consultation. We went over to the Wellington Hotel, and I was asked to go outside for a few minutes. On my return Tuiti Macdonald explained that the Natives were entirely without means, and asked if I would pay Mr. Bell the money. I said it was rather a bad start : they had come down with no money. I did not see why they should ask me to pay for them; still, I said I did not see why they should go right away back after they had been to all the trouble to come to Wellington. [ said, " I have not £100 with me; I have .£5O, and I can get another £50 by the afternoon." They said they were very grateful indeed; they knew I had been the friend of many of the Maoris up there, and they would be very pleased if I would do that. So I went to the Union Bank and got a £50 note, and we forthwith proceeded to Mr. Bell's office. I put the £50 note before him, and said I thought perhaps that would be enough to go on with, but if it was not sufficient I thought I could get the other £50 in the afternoon, having wired to my banker at Te Kuiti. Mr. Bell was very pleased at that; he was very much astonished; and he then proceeded to give instructions as to the method of procedure in dealing with the case. He wrote out in a book the order of reference or something of that kind —a statement of what he proposed to do with regard to the different blocks. He read it out, and asked me to sign each page of it. I was rather taken aback at that, not knowing but that I might render myself liable for any costs; still, I did not think it was very material, so I signed each sheet. Mi-. Bell ordered that everything was to be printed—all the accounts and everything; and he gave instructions to his assistants to prepare proper documents ready for the next morning. He said these papers would be ready for us to take away in the morning—these writs. I have them here. He said that with regard to Block If he was not quite sure that we would succeed. Mr. Massey: Ido not think you need to go into so much detail. Witness: Ido not know just what part you might think really material. Well, in the afternoon I brou-ght the other £50. Ihen I went outside. Am Ito tell everything? Mr. Massey: Whatever has any bearing on the matter. Witness: I ask because a reference has appeared in the newspaper to my being a fool, and I want to explain it. It occurred in connection with this business. I want to know if I should say anything about that, because it was on that occasion that the expression " fool " was made use of. When the Natives and I had left, I returned to Mr. Bell and told him that I had provided the money. He said, "You are a bally fool, Hardy." I asked why? He said, "The Natives will never pay you." That is the occasion on which he said I was a fool. I told him I thought I could trust the older Natives, and I thought everything would be right. We returned to our homes, armed with all the documents. 18. Mr. Massey.] You informed Mr. Bell about the proposal to sell the block to Mr. Lewis, did you not? —Yes, we had discussed all that. 19. What advice did he give you—did he offer any opinion upon the proposal?— No. He said we were to contest the matter. 20. What do you mean by " contesting the matter " I—To1 —To object to the sale. 21. You came to the conclusion that the proper thing to do, in the interests of the Natives, was to object to the proposed sale? —Yes. The reason was that the older Natives at Mokau had sentimental reasons against disposing of their property. The younger people apparently were not so anxious not to sell, but out of respect to the wishes of the older Natives it was considered not advisable to sell. The question of the value or the price was never discussed. 22. Between yourself and Mr. Bell? —Yes; nor did the Natives at any time tell me that they were not satisfied with the price.