K. MCNAB.;

83

I.—3a

the transactions by which every one was cleared of! all took place at one time. I presume that these were mortgages on the title which our solicitor required to be cleared oft before he paid the money. 45. That is practically the amount that went for Mr. Lewis's interests—for the lease/—F or all the interests which Mr. Chambers sold to us. Mr. Lewis may, for all I know, have secured other interests which he did not sell to Mr. Mason Chambers. 46. The "balance due to Mr. Herrman Lewis" is stated at £3,809. What I want to know is, Where does the term "balance" come in?—l presume this is it: there are so-many fully-paid-up shares to go to the Natives; there is a certain sum to go to Mr. Mason Chambers; there is a certain sum to pay off mortgages: those items have to be deducted from the £85,000, and then the balance naturally would have to be paid over as directed by Mr. Mason Chambers. 47. This is termed the "balance due to Herrman Lewis," is it not? —Our solicitors would pay it by direction of Mr. Mason Chambers. That is a copy of his own statement to vs —that document that you have there. . 48. "Cheque to Findlay, Dalziell, and Co. for balance due to Herrman Lewis, £3,809." The £44,221 represents Hermann Lewis, or mortgages owing by him?—l could not tell you. It was a very intricate transaction, and we relied entirely on our solicitor to give a certificate that he had disposed of the moneys—the £85,000 —which we gave him a cheque for. 49. Who is your solicitor? —Mr. C. A. Loughnan. 50. Is he the secretary and the solicitor? —No, he is not secretary. Mr. J. M. Johnston is secretary. 51. You paid £85,000 to Mr. Mason Chambers ?—Yes, including the fully-paid-up shares. 52. And £45,000 to Mr. Fraser? —Yes. Part of the £45,000 is in mortgage and £20,000 in cash. That is for the coal-mine. 53. Those sums, added together, make £130,000? —Yes; that is what we had to find at the bank. 54. How is it that your company is only floated with £100,000 capital?—l think the Hawke's Bay men we had on board were sufficiently strong to enable them to deal with us. 55. You did not pay Mr. Mason Chambers altogether in cash : lie took so-many shares?— Yes. 56. The total amount you have actually paid for the two propositions is £130,000? —Yes, and it is all paid too. There is only one mortgage over the property. 57. The Chairman of the Maori Land Board holds the title? —So Mr. Loughnan informs me. 58. Did you know of that arrangement when you became chairman of the company?— No. 59. When was that arrangement entered into? —It was reported to us when Mr. Loughnan handed in this statement as to how he had disposed of the money—either on that date (13th June) or a day or so following. 60. Do you know when the mortgage deeds were signed, from the President of the Maori Land Board to yourself! —On the 11th May we were authorized to attach the seal of the company to the mortgage by the corapan)' to the mon named. It would be after that date. 61. That is a different mortgage, is it not? There is a mortgage from Mr. Bowler to the men named? —I cannot tell you the date of that mortgage. I was not there at the execution of that. I was speaking of the mortgage which we executed under the resolution of the 11th May. 62. Hon. Mr. Ngata.~\ The mortgage to the Bank? —To the guarantors —to secure the guarantors. 63. Mr. H errie.it.~\ What mortgage was "that?—A memorandum of mortgage and a mortgage debenture to secure the guarantors in respect of any calls they may have to pay. 64. The mortgage that I am asking about is one by the President of the Maori Land Board 1 —I cannot tell you about that. 65. The President mortgaged a portion of the land to some gentlemen among whom was yourself I —Yes. 66. Do you know anything about that mortgage?— No. It is evidently an arrangement of the conveyancing men when they were fixing up a settlement of affaire. Mr. Dalziell: I can" explain that later on. 67. Mr. This other mortgage for £75,000 is quite a different tiling?— Yes. That ia the one we were authorized to put the seal of the company on. 68. What is the position of the title to the land now? You have no title? —No, so lam advised by the solicitor. We have to get all the land disposed of within three years. We can cut it up into blocks under the Native land laws and nominate to the President of the Board, I understand, people who, if they can make the necessary declaration, will get the title. 69. Have you any agreement with the President of the Maori Land Board?— Not to my knowledge. 70. Supposing he refuses to sign? —Well, unless our solicitors have provided that we can force him by law, I do not know of anything. 71. Supposing he arbitrarily refuses to sign?—l am speaking as a layman on that point. Unless there is some provision by which, under the Order in Council, we can compel him, Ido not know how we can proceed. 72. Is that not a peculiar position?— The whole position is a singular one. The company is satisfied with the assurance of its solicitor that everything is in order to enable us to carry out the disposal of the land. 73. If Mr. Bowler chooses to sell the land and go off with the funds you have no remedyY— Ido not know. That is a legal point that lam not qualified to express an opinion upon. 74. Has Mr. Bowler got any shares in the company?— Unless Mr. Mason Chambers or some other person has transferred them to him, I do not think he has. 75. In this list of shareholders which you put in I see there is an E. R. Bowler? —That is a solicitor in Gore.