F. G. DALZIELL. J

111

I.—3a.

23. Mr. Massey.] Are you quite sure of that?—l am speaking of what is in my own knowledge. 24. That all the Natives with the exception of four or five were anxious to sell?— 1 understand so. 25. All but four or five out of 108?— All except the Te Whiti-ites. 26. You add them to the four or five?— No, they are the four or five. 1 never at ,any time was mini mc.l in fact, Ido not think the question was ever raised—that any of them desired to hold ..i] to the leases without litigation, becauee if they had they would have been in the unfortunate position of not being able t>, take their rents. They would' have been in an extraordinarily awkward position if they had eimply done nothing. Mr. Lewis would have been accumulating the rents, and they would have been getting nothing at all. They could not raise the necessarj funds to carry out Mr. Bell's advice. They therefore chose to adopt Mr. Skerrett's. 27. Was Mr. Skerrett in New Zealand when the sale took place?—No, but there was not a single alteration of the circumstances between the time when Mr. Skerrett advised the Natives to sell and the date when the resolution was finally carried. Mr. Skerrett's advice was quite as apt at the final meeting as at the first. Mr. Hell's fifth statement is thai the Natives had no advice on the resolution submitted to the assembled meeting; and it has been suggested thai the Chairman of the Maori Land Board should have .seen thai they had. The reply to that is that the resolution at each meeting was the simple one thai the Natives should sell. The Hoard knew that Mr. Skerrett hail advised mi this at the firsi meeting. They were informed by Mr. Bell before the second meeting that lie was advising them, and they wvif never informed by Mr. Bell or any"body else that he had retired from being their counsel—that his advice hail been withdrawn from the Natives. 28. Do you assert that Mr. Hell retired from the position of counsel? — Perhaps "retired " is not the proper word. " Was not then advising the Natives" would be better. Mr. Herries: Surely Mr. Dalziell can hardly speak with regard to Mr. Bell's own connection with his clients. II itness: I' anion me. lam speaking now of communications which, to my knowledge, passed between Mi . Bell and the Chairman of the Board. They have been put in. Mr. Herries: We have Mr. Bardy's telegrams to Mr. Bell, too. Witness: That i_s so: I will come to them directly. The sixth statement is that the Maori Land Hoard had used its powers to coerce the Natives by calling meeting after meeting to force them to sell. This again, I say. is pure imagination. 'I he first meeting was adjourned at the request of the sellers and non-sellers. The second meeting was fixed for a date to suit Mr. Bell's convenience, lie having said he would be present. The original date was altered to suit the convenience of all counsel engaged, including Mr. Bell. Mr. Hell applied for a further adjournment, but we could not agree. The second meeting was adjourned on the motion of Mr. Hell's clients, who wished to consult their people at Mokau. There were therefore only two adjournments. 29. Mr. Massey. ~\ There were three meetings? Yes; tin' third, was an adjournment of the second. The seventh statement is that Mr. Skerrett could not have believed in the claim for tSO.OOO. Now, 1 took part with Mr. Skerrett in these negotiations, and I am aware that he both advised the Natives, and made the basis of a claim on the Government, that the Natives had a valid claim on the Assurance Fund. Of course, £80,000 was fixed simply as the outside limit— it was impossible for anybody to tell what the value of the claim was. 30. That claim holds good, does it not? —I think you will find it does not, if you or anybody else tests the question. Mr. Hell bases his opinion on the fact that the Natives, having been parties to the lease, could not claim on the Assurance Fund. 1 surest be has not given sufficient consideration to the fact that, the lease being prohibited by statute, the Natives must he treated as not having signed it, except where the question of the title to the land is concerned. Their act in signing the lease was illegal and void, and it would defeat the purpose of the statute if by signing it they were deprived of a claim which they would otherwise have had on the Assurance Fund. 31. The Chairman,.'] Would that not apply right from the start, in the dealings with these lands? From the very start. As far as the Natives were concerned, apart from the title guaranteed by the Land Transfer Act, the lease was just as though it had been a piece of blank paper. That is the effect, as I understand it. Now. the eighth statement is tin's, that the Board directed that £2,500 was to be paid for expenses. 32. Mr. Berries.'] I think Mr. Bell withdrew that? —1 will not deal with it, then, hut will merely say thai there was no such order made. The ninth statement is that ho (Mr. Hell) thought that Mr. Hardy and Mi-. Macdonald had arrived at the conclusion that it was a very good thing he did not attend the meeting. Tn the first part of his evidence Mr. Bell stated that he had advised Macdonald and Hardy thai his presence at this meeting was not necessary if they were not going to pass a resolution to sell. Mr. Hell told you that, and then later- on he said that they evidently thought it a good thiiiLT that be should not be present. The only implication one can take from that is that they had some sinister design in view. Mr. Massey: Macdonald wired that Mr. Bell was not wanted. Witness: The telegrams that passed between Mr. Bell and Mr. Hardy speak for themselves, and suggesi that Mr. Hardy only agreed at Mr. Bell's urgent request to Mr. Bell not heing present. Mr, Herries: He did not say that. Macdonald wired that Mr. 801 l was not wanted. Witness: Only after Mr. Hell's request was made. Mr. Massey: No. before. Witness: Pardon me. The Committee have the telegrams. You will find that Mr. Bell telegraphed "Am T required?" ami Mr. Hardy replied, "T will communicate with Mr. Macdonald and let you know." Mr, Massey: Mr. Macdonald's telegram is dated the 7th and Mr. Bell s the Ktn.