JOSHUA JONES.

147

I.—Ba.

to at the several meetings of the Natives with the Government in 'laianaki and the Waikato, which were as much for their benefit as mine; and the expenses of the Land Court which eat at Waitara in 1882. Any one experienced in Native dealings in those days knows what a Land Court was. It was no small item. As to finding the capital to effect the surveys, the Government undertook in 1579 to do these without cost to the Natives or myself. I have Mr. Sheehan's letter to me of April, 187!), and Mr. Carrington's letter of 1885, and will put them in. Mr. Sheehan in his letter said that the Government would do all in their power to assist me to acquire this land and do the surveys, in consideration of my having opened up that country, while Mr. Carrington's note of LBBS is to the effect that if I opened up that country I deserved' all the assistance the Government could give me. In addition to getting money from Adelaide, which I mentioned when I gave evidence before, there were some gentlemen in Auckland who chartered a steamer called the " Douglas " and came down to Mokau, and they were prepared to go into the venture. There is a gentleman here in Wellington named O'Sullivan, and he was one of the party. His father had money, and they were going to put money into it. But when they got down to' Mokau they found that the Natives had been throwing the coal into the river, and there was a dispute about tlu and one thing and another, and consequently thej did not go into the venture. But the great difficulty was with regard to the surveys. The Government stopped the surveys. 11. Hon. Mr. Ngata.~\ You brought all this before the Commission of 1888, did you not, and the Government introduced legislation upon the report of thai Commission? Yon are quoting 1879 there, are you not? —Yes. Hon. Mr. Ngata: Yon are going too far back for the Committee. II itness: But here is the point : you have all acted upon the report of this Stout Commission. Mr. Herries: No. Witness: But I have been damned by it. The Order in Council has been issued on account of this report, which says that my leases are invalid and voidable. Sir Robert Stout says that I broke my tonus with the Natives. I will show you that the Natives came to me afterwards, and we made terms that were approved by the Trust Commissioner. This Stout-Palmer report is held up in front of me as though I had been acting wrongly or improperly: and the Commission reported behind my back. 1 will just show you what terms were come to. After all this bother the head chief came to me, with Mr. Dalton, a licensed interpreter, in March, 1887, and said he was sorry that his people had thrown the coal into the river and broken the fences, but it would not occur again; and lie wanted other terms in lieu of the company business. 1 proposed to him that in addition to the £25 for rental I should give him and his people £100—that is, £125 —for the front lease for half of the term, and £250 for the last half of the term; and for the back half of the property, £100 for the first half of the term, and £200 for the next half; and I would pay all rates and taxes to be levied on both blocks. I have a document from Wetere to Trust Commissioner Wilson, who refused to pass the lease in the absence of a survey and approved plan; but the document was produced to Trust Commissioner Seth Smith, when he passed the lease of If. It will be seen that there was no misapprehension in the mind of either the Trust Commissioner or the Natives in the matter. Mr. Seth Smith stilted that he would pass the deed of lease, and if the Natives chose to propose and accept another equivalent in payment, under the circumstances of the past, as they appeared to be doing, there was no violation to justify a penalty, and the lease would hold good. With regard to the other leases (excepting c, which was not dealt with), there were no conditions beyond payment of rent, rates, and taxes. Judge O'Brien understood the position entirely when he made the partitions and as Trust Commissioner certified to many of the alienations. That the Natives understood the matter may be safely inferred by the agreement betwixt myself and Wetere te Eterenga, dated January, 1887. li> those days, of course, Wetere would have his men round him. and would generally speak for them, as was the custom. I submit that the rental at the time, considering what 1 had expended and the time I had waited previously without any return whatever in connection with this transaction —as was necessary in those days, and doubly so in this case —was considered by all parlies having knowledge of the circumstances to be a very fair one. It was well known that the country had been tabooed for years, and on one else would go in there. If there is any question the Committee wish to ask me, I shall be only too glad to answer it. I want to make it as clear as I can that there has been no improper conduct on my part. As for Sir Robert Stout, I shall deal with him: he can take that from me. I have here the report of the Commission of 1888. They say, " Considering the exceptional nature and circumstances of the case, the said Joshua Jones is, in our opinion, entitled to any assistance which the Legislature can accord, having regard to the just rights and interests of the Natives. Nor has there been any such dilatorinese on the part of the said Joshua Jones in prosecuting his negotiations as to disentitle him, and those claiming through him, to such assistance. But on account of the difficulty of the case, we consider that any suggestion as to the specific form which such assistance should take must proceed from Mr. Jones himself or his legal advisers. . . . The said Joshua Jones has undoubtedly sustained serious loss and injury through inability to make good his title, but we are unable to form any pecuniary estimate thereof." I did not ask for compensation or anything. [Witnesß handed in several documents referred to in his evidence.] Before I go, Mr. Chairman, if there is anything objectionable that T have said which you think is going to do any harm to anybody, strike it out.