r.—3b.

C. L. DUIGAN.I

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subsequently, but this provision has not been made retrospective. T may say that when I took up this land originally I was quite a new-chum to bush farming—l knew nothing at all about it. I went up there and saw a lot of men working on the road, and I assumed naturally that the roads would be made ; but as soon as the sections were taken up work on the roads stopped, and the road did not even go so far as one of the sections I held. The Minister, I believe, struck out even votes for maintenance a fter that. I wish to emphasize that if we rate ourselves and borrow and make these roads the lessees will have to pay the entire cost, because the sinking fund will pay off the loan before our lease is vp — the Natives will not have to pay any portion of it. The contribution of the Maori Land Board to the, roads, so far as I can ascertain, is given in this Government return G.-10. That is shown in the case of Ohotu No. las £6,874. The area of the block is something like 55,000 acres, I believe. It is bush land, and the rents of these Ohotu sections vary from 6d. an acre up to —well, I am paying 2s. 3d., for example. Ido not know if any one is paying more. Of course, in taking up bush land it is a lottery : you do not know what your country is going to be like until you grass it. It is impossible to go over an area of heavy-bush country. 11. Hon. Sir J. Carroll.] Did you take it at the upset price ? —Some of it; some of it we paid more for. The cheapest country we have we pay Is. 6d. an acre for. I want to refer briefly to the position with regard to the timber. The part of the block that we lease was covered, when we took the land up. with magnificent milling-timber- the best milling-timber I have ever seen. It was mostly limn and matai, and was within a distance of eight miles from the Main Trunk Railway. There is a clause in some of our leases providing that the Maoris shall have half of the royalty on the timber if we mill it: we are not obliged to mill it, but if w r e do half of the royalty is to go to the Maoris. We made representations to the Maori Land Board to have that provision removed, so that we could deal with the timber. I will read you the letter I wrote to the Board, and the Board's reply :" We have been making inquiries with reference to the possibility of disposing of the timber on our sections, or such of them as are suitable for milling. The following reply was received by us from a timber company whom we approached on the matter : ' After looking into the matter our company could not consider the matter if the ruling Government royalty were charged, as the block is so far from a station that the tramming-charges would, when added to the royalty, be more than we could purchase timber for close to the line. If, however, the Aotea Land Board were to allow the timber to be sold at a reduced rati-, our company, I think, would probably agree to buy the timber and put in a tram to get it out. There is a lot of line timber in the block, and it seems a greal pity that it should be all wasted ; but a tram to the Rangataua Railway-station, which would be the nearest point on the railway, would be seven or eight miles to the centre of the bulk of the timber. This would cost a large sum of money, and would probably have to be laid with steel rails, so that unless the timber were allowed to be sold at a reduced rate there would be no inducement to do anything in the matter. If you would find out from the Board if a sum of, say, £1 per acre would be agreed to for the timber rights, our company would go into the matter and would be prepared to make a definite offer.' The petition which we sent you, and to which you replied on the 4th ultimo, sets out fully the facts of the case, and we again respectfully urge the matter on your favourable consideration. As high royalties, which are chargeable if the strict letter of our leases is insisted on, are proving an absolute bar to dealing with the timber, we now beg to apply that your Board will assist us by fixing the value of the timber at £1 per acre, on such of the sections as contain milling-timber, half of which would be payable to your Board and half to the lessee. If you can see your way to grant our request the present uncertainty will be removed, and we shall have a definite basis to work on in negotiating with milling companies. We have already felled about 850 acres of milling bush on our sections, which will be burnt this summer, and we take this early opportunity of approaching your Board, as our future policy with regard to felling the land must necessarily depend on your decision as to whether you will meet us in this matter. It will be ten thousand pities if the present conditions result in neither the Natives nor ourselves obtaining any benefit from the timber." The Board refused to grant that request. 12. The Chairman.] You will put that letter in ?—Yes, sir. [Letter put in.] That was in 1907. 1 may say that I estimated the area of country with milling-timber within a distance of, say, ten miles of the Main Trunk Railway to be about 10,000 acres. Of that my brother and I and those neighbours who are interested in that area have now felled and burnt quite half. It has been destroyed. We could get no satisfaction from the Board, and we could not afford to pay rent and rates and hold the timber. 13. Have you got the Board's reply ? —Yes. " Your letter (undated) addressed to the President and members of the above Board, requesting the cancellation of the timber-royalty clause in your leases, was duly considered at a meeting held in Wellington on 30th ultimo, and I was instructed to reply that, ' as the clause in question was one of the conditions of lease when the land was placed on the market, the Board has no power to grant the request.' " [Letter put in.] I may explain that these Ohotu leases have been taken up, to a very great extent, by men who,'like myself, are not practical farmers, and who do not live on their sections. They are debarred by the residential clause from taking up Government sections; but in these leases the residential clause was waived, and for that reason a number of people who live in Wanganui took up these leases, with the idea of improving the sections gradually and perhaps living on them later on when they retire from business. That was one of the main reasons why these leases were taken up. 14. Hon. Sir J. Carroll.] There was a strong application from the Wanganui residents that that condition should be waived ? —Yes. 15. It was made a public question in Wanganui ?—That is the reason why this block was taken up so readily at the time. A great many townspeople who were not eligible for ordinary Crown land were able to apply for these sections, and they have spent a considerable sum in improvements. Mv brother and I, up to the present time, have spent something over £10,000 on improvements on our sections. There is very heavy timber on the land, but it is not good milling bush. The undergrowth