I.—6a.

38

[B. W. iICVILLY.

four more for unsatisfactory work and cash irregularities, another resigned on account of being suspected of theft, another resigned on account of unsatisfactory work and failing to account for cash collected, another resigned on account of the office-work affecting his health, another dismised for peculation, and another dismissed for being under the influence of liquor. Out of the whole lot there are twelve cases of bona fide resignations since Ist April, 1910, up to date. I think that is a sufficient answer on that point. Now we come to the pay of stations, and I think the contention was that practically nothing had been done—that the pay was very unsatisfactory. Well, in connection with that I would like to quote the pay of Stationmasters in Australia. Mr. Ramsay: I propose to object to that, sir. I object to the quoting of any evidence with regard to the pay of Postal officers in Australia at all, for the reason that we are not able to refute the statements, and it is most unfair that outside conditions should be introduced into the evidence to be given. Mr. McVilly: It deals with Railway Stationmasters. Hon. Mr. Millar: I maintain that the Railway Officers' Institute has had plenty of opportunity of getting copies of the figures from Australia of the same classifications we have got. It is a fair comparison for the same class of work exactly, and the responsibilities are the same. I wish to show that the Railway men in New Zealand are being treated fairly for the work they are doing, and the only way to obtain a fair comparison is to take similar classes of work. The Chairman : Such evidence has already been admitted before to-day, and in view of that fact, I think we ought to admit statements regarding Railway men in Australia. It is a point I have given consideration to since our last meeting, and I have decided we can accept the evidence. Mr. Ramsay: The evidence before was brought out in cross-examination. The Chairman: Still, it was a reference to the pay of men in other countries. Mr. Ramsay: Some men were asked the question, "What was the pay in Australia?" and it was brought upon vs —we were not responsible for that. The Chairman: It is competent for the members of the institute to criticize the pay given to members of the service in Australia, but I think the evidence ought to be admitted. Mr. Ross: I presume a note will be taken of the objection to the comparison of the pay of the officers in Australia. In making that objection I have no doubt the officers have been prompted by the knowledge of what takes place in the Arbitration Court in this country. When the men seek to obtain a higher rate of pay than they are drawing no Arbitration Court would accept evidence as to the rate of pay in other parts of the world. It would not be admitted as evidence worthy of being placed before that tribunal, and, personally, I am of the opinion that if we do admit this evidence it is not worth the paper it is written upon. The Chairman: That is for the Committee to judge. Hon. Mr. Millar: And it is for the public to judge. Mr. Ross: Yes. I am expressing my own opinion upon it, and I want it to be placed on record that as a member of this Committee I am of the opinion that the evidence is altogether out of order and in no way affects the position as stated before the Committee by the officers, and as being refuted by the Department. Mr. Arnold: There is also the question as to whether the employees in Australia are satisfied — whether there is a state of unrest. Hon. Mr. Millar: Of course, there is a state of unrest; it can all be brought in. The Chairman : Each member of the Committee will please himself wdiat value he attaches to this evidence. Although the evidence is admitted, we cannot attach much importance to it unless we are conversant with the general conditions in Australia. Witness: First of all, sir, I will place on record the pay of the stations in New Zealand for the years 1895, 1897, 1902, 1907, and 1910.* In 1895 there were four first-class stations : One was receiving £250, two were receiving £275, and one was receiving £300. Houses were attached to those positions. In 1897 one was receiving £300, two were receiving £275, and one was receiving £250. I want to point this out to the Committee : that prior to 1901 Stationmasters at first-class stations began at £250 and a house. After ten years as a first-class Stationmaster there would be £25 additional, making the pay £275 and house. After fifteen years as a first-class ■Stationmaster be would get £300 and a house. In 1902 four were receiving £315; in 1907 four were receiving £355; in 1910 three were receiving £400, and one was receiving £370 (less houserent in these cases). In 1895 there were six stations in grade £315-£355 now—two receiving £200, and four receiving £250. In 1897 there were four receiving £250, one receiving £210, and one receiving £220. In 1902 there were four receiving £315, one receiving £260, and one receiving £330. In 1907 there were four receiving £355, one receiving £345, and one receiving £315. The man at £315 was, of course, the result of one man having gone up. A man had i-eached the top of his grade, and another man had been promoted. In 1910 there were two receiving £355, three receiving £330, and one receiving £345. In Victoria there are 109 stations receiving 160 stations receiving £160, 74 stations receiving £180, 44 stations receiving £200. 16 stations receiving £225, 12 stations receiving £250, 8 stations receiving £275, 9 stations receiving £300, and 2 stations receiving £350. I desire to say that the information I have last quoted was prepared and handed to me by the Secretary of the Victorian Railways. The date is 21st April, 1910. The average pay for Stationmasters and Goods Agents in New Zealand at the corresponding date to that was—New Zealand, £224; New South Wales, £186; Victoria. £168; Queensland, £158. 3. Mr. Witty.] What about house-rent there? —The men in Victoria get house-rent free. I will deal with that later. Now we will compare the first-class Stationmasters in New Zealand with the Victorian men. First, we will take Flinders Station. There is a man there who deals with 1,184 passenger-trains in a day, and the revenue is £135,000, and others are as follows: Spencer Street—436 passenger trains', revenue £431,034. Against this we have got Christchurch, Dunedin, Wellington, and Lyttelton. The highest number of time-table trains at any of those

• See Exhibit No. 4.