I.—6a.

72

K. W. MCVILLY.

General Manager in New Zealand deals with the recommendations of the heads of branches, and their recommendations are obtained in the same way as ours —that is, by consulting the man immediately in control of the men. 66. And you are of opinion that all that is necessary for the control of a large body of men such as you have in this country is the appointment of a junior officer to take charge of the records of those men, and to consult with you as to promotion or otherwise in connection with those servants?— Well, if this discussion is to take a personal turn I am quite prepared to deal with it, sir, in a personal vein; but I take it we are discussing the system, and I strongly object to any innuendo or any inference being made that I consult with a junior clerk on staff matters. I take the strongest possible objection to that statement, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Ross: I would like you to answer the question. I was asking the witness, Mr. Chairman, in view of the fact of his knowledge of what is done in other parts of the world and from his experience of railway management, if he is of opinion that ample provision is made for controlling the staff by the appointment of a junior officer who has to hold the records and consult with the Chief Clerk in the Head Office from time to time as to the retirement or promotion of the various members of the Railway service. 67. The Chairman.] That reference to the Chief Clerk from time to time may be to any Chief Clerk? —The question put to me originally was to consult with me, and I am quite prepared to deal with the matter on personal grounds. Mr. Ross: 1 do not ask to deal with the matter on personal grounds. Hon. Mr. Millar: I desire to point out that nothing conies from the Chief Clerk to me at all. Every question of reduction or increase in salary comes direct from the General Manager. Witness: I am quite prepared to answer that question, and I will say this: that the fact of the question being put in the manner in which it has been put indicates a complete ignorance of the staff system. Mr. Ross: I distinctly object to Mr. McVilly being allowed to reply to a member of Parliament who is sitting on a Committee in the manner in which he has attempted to reply, and I contend we must have some little order in reference to our cross-examination. The question I have put has been ruled b}' you, Mr. Chairman, as being a perfectly proper one, and we must insist on getting an answer and having no reflections cast upon a member of the Committee. 68. The Chairman.] I would like to point out, Mr. McVilly, that your reply is not a reply, but really a comment on the question asked. The question, according to you, indicates a certain thing, but you are asked to reply to the question?— Well, sir, the system is not as outlined in the question. The records are not dealt with by a junior clerk. The recommendations come in from the heads of the branches, they are considered by the General Manager, and they are dealt with by the General Manager in accordance with the Act and the Regulations. 69. Mr. Ross (to witness).] Consequently your reply to my question would be "No"?—If your question refers to my dealing with the staff in conjunction with a junior clerk, the position is that it is not dealt with in that way. 70. Mr. Arnold.] I understand that what Mr. Ross wanted to know was whether you were of opinion that such a system would be satisfactory? —If the practice were for a junior clerk to deal with the staff and consult with the Chief Clerk, I say No, it would not be satisfactory. 71. Mr. Buick.] lam not satisfied with the reply to a question I asked. Do you not think it would be possible to have a system by which a man who had been adversely reported on would get a copy of that report so that he would knoxv what it contained —say, from the Head Office or any one else? —Well, sir, the rule is that the man who makes the adverse report on the man has to advise him; and every instance which comes under the notice of the Department in which that rule is not carried out is promptly taken up, because we want the men advised —there is no doubt about that. 72. Do you think a copy sent to the man adversely reported on would have that effect — if it went direct from the Head Office? —All the Head Office gets is "John Smith not recommended." That is the first intimation we get, and we do not know the reasons until we have probably corresponded for some months. 73. Mr. J. V. Brown.] There has been a good deal said in connection with two men in a grade, Nos. 11 and 15, being put over the heads of two other men, Nos. 3 and 9. I want to know if this position could not occur : that a man might be a fairly efficient officer and be in a certain position; he might afterwards become careless and not attend to his work, or his health might become such that he was not fit to carry out the work. If that went on for a time, I suppose, while the man was in that state of health, if it was reported to the authorities another man might be put over his head ?—Yes, certainly. 74. Although a man was third or fourth on the list, if you saw that his health was indifferent you would consider that it was risky putting him in the higher position, and you would pass over him and put another man in the position I —That happens every day. 75. And then afterwards if the health of the man improved or he became more attentive to his work he would get back to his position? —Yes, he would then be promoted in turn. Every man who is adversely reported on for any reason and then is subsequently recommended is considered, but some notice is taken of it when he is not recommended. 76. The Chairman.] I think you stated that men were recommended for promotion automatically?— Yes. 77. That is at the annual review of the staff ?—Yes. What I meant by that was in regard to the increases more particularly. Generally speaking, a man is recommended if he is in a class which carries an increment whether his work is altogether satisfactory or not; and, speaking generally in regard to promotions, the men get the recommendations for promotion very easily. They are mostly favourable.