L—6a.

98

[R. W. MCVILLY.

malingering as an officer at a larger place or in a city!—lf a man at a country station reports to the District Officer that he is ill and cannot carry out his work he has got to be relieved, and that is what was being done. 88. But that xvould be a genuine case and not a case of malingering?—lt may not be, and I am afraid in some cases it xvas not. 89. You have not distinguished in any way between the malingering that takes place at big stations and that, xvhich takes place at small stations? —No, I am dealing xvith the position generally. 90. What I want to get at is this: why a man at a country station with perhaps only a clerk to help him should be made to suffer as a result of five men from a big station walking about Wellington?—l have not said those men xvere from a big station—l said from a section. 91. Or from a place where they could not cause the same inconvenience? —I do not think you would get any officer in charge of a big section to admit that lie could spare five men from his staff at one time. 92. From the one centre I mean? —Well, take Auckland : there are probably forty men in the Auckland Coods, anil if Mr. O'Loughlen was asked if he could spare fix 7 e men at one time he would say No : is that so ? Mr. O'Loughlen : That is right. 93. The Chairman.] But he might spare one, and the Traffic Department might spare another, and they would all come from the centre?— That is right, but the probabilities of getting a condition of that kind are rather remote. Mr. O'Loughlen : We often have two or three off at a time, and the other clerks have to work extra hours. There is a relief at times, but at times there is not. 94. The Chairman.] If the passes and privilege tickets xvere withdrawn do you think that the First Division could be placed in the same position regarding salaries and leave as the officers in the Postal Department?—lf the passes and privilege tickets were withdrawn from the First Division you xvould have to bring the whole service into one common line, and the probabilities are, if the passes and privilege tickets xx-ere withdrawn from the First Division, that it would pay the cost. 95. Would the Department be satisfied to withdraw the passes and privilege tickets and place the men of the First Division in the same position as the officers in the Postal service? — Well, sir, I think the question of dealing differentially between the members of the First and Second Division in regard to privileges xvould resolve itself into a question of policy. 96. Well, of course the Department might decide to do the same with the Second Division ?— Yes. 97. And give them, for instance, the same xvages as are paid outside whether the wages are higher or lower —the same xvages as are paid under tin- Arbitration Act? —Well, I understand the Second Division have already taken three votes in response to requests, and I knoxv which side of the fence they got on. 98. You are going into another question noxv?—l am just saying that the First Division could hardly be treated differently from the Second Division. I do not think that, you would get them to accept arbitration. 99. We are not on this question, and strictly speaking it should not be admitted. Of course, if you say that the Second Division have been given the opportunity of taking three votes, and I were to follow that up, I xvould ask xvhat men were allowed to vote and xvhat sort of votes?— Ami on the other band I xvould be quite prepared to deal xvith that question. 100. It is really a question apart from the Second Division and xve cannot go into it?—l do not think you can separate them, sir. 101. I xvant to get at this : xvhether, in your opinion, the Department would be satisfied that the First Division should be placed on the same footing as (hi- Postal officers if the passes and privilege tickets were xvithdrawn?—Well, I am of opinion, sir, that you xvould have to deal with that matter on the general experience elsewhere and also in this country, and that is that one division of the service xvould wjint just exactly the same as the other in the matter of free passes and privilege tickets. 102. Would the Department suffer a loss if it xvere to place the First Division men in tinsame position as the Postal officials and withdraw the free passes and privilege tickets!—Tn respect of leave? 103. Yes, in respect of leave and in respect of salaries : do you think the Department xvould suffer loss? —Well, provided the Department had exactly the same poxver as the head of the Postal Department I do not think that there would be very much to be gained by the men. 104. I am not asking xvhat the men xvould gain : I want to knoxv, from the Department's point of view, would it be a loss to the Department to pay the same salaries and alloxv the same leave as the Postal officers get, but on the other hand withdraw the free passes and privilege tickets? —Well, I am unable to say xvithout taking out the passes and privilege tickets for the First Division. T should have to get the general cost and value of the passes and privilege tickets. 105. I think you said it was £25,000 for special privilege tickets for both divisions!—lt is £129,000 for passes and privilege tickets. 106. That is, if every man in the service avails himself of the privilege?—We have had the totals taken out roiis-hlv —that is, on xvhat they ask for and obtain. 107. That £129.000 represents the actual number of privilege tickets issued in response to applications? —Privilege tickets were issued to the extent of £8,300; that is practically £25,00(1 of a saving. Tho total value of the fares would be £33,000 roughly. The question of passes was gone into, and before the fares were increased I think it was somexvhere about £82.000. Well,