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should do it. Of course, I would not be responsible for individual men —temperaments vary; but I know I should do it myself. 98. Noxv, Mr. Graham, dealing with the mercantile firms, you referred to the fact that a man can purchase his goods and gets a certain concession if he is in their employ?— Yes. 99. Well, if that is so—and I am not contending that it is not a fair thing to say —why should you eliminate, xvhen discussing the Railway, the benefits that you get from the Railway Department in the matter of payment for sick-leave, payment for Sunday duty, free passes, and privilege tickets? —I am not eliminating them. lam using the argument to shoxv that the favours are not all on the side of the Department; that the men give something for those favours. That is the argument I am trying to impress upon the Committee. 100. Very xx-ell, if you use the argument in the way you are using it, then you admit that the Department has a right to take credit and set those privileges off as against the services performed by the men and regard them as a concession? —Yes, but on the other hand I contend that the man xvho does the xvork has a perfect right to get credit for that xx'ork, and the time he is at xvork as a set-off against what lie gets from the Department. 101. I am not contending the other way. As I understand it, in your opening remarks the contention was that the Department should not take credit for those things?— No. 102. At any rate, you admit, on behalf of the institute, that the Department has that right, and is quite light in taking those concessions into consideration? —Certainly, they are quite right in offering any argument to maintain their position. 103. But taking into consideration what is done outside in regard to bonuses and purchase of goods?— And passes also outside. 104. And you admit that the Department has a perfect right to take into consideration and to advance as value the fact that it is giving concessions to the Railway men which amount to a large sum annually?—Y'es, but on the other hand I xvish to impress upon this Committee that the Railway man has a perfeci right to advance the extra hours or service that the Department is receiving for those privileges, and also the value of them as compared with xvhat they are giving in return. 105. Y r ou admit that is right?— Yes. that is what is being done. 106. .'//-. Ramsay.] Mr. MeYilly's cross-examination was directed towards showing the difficulty in arranging the hours and the difficulty in arranging for payment for overtime. Now, in order to let the Railway Department out of this difficulty, I xvant to make this clear: that the Railway officers are prepared to forego any claim I'm- overtime provided sick-leave up to twentyeight days is not deducted annually?— That is what I have read in clause D of the petition. 107. Mr. McVilly.] Assuming the Department does that, Mr. Graham, 1 want to know from you. on behalf of the institute, whether you will gix'e an undertaking, on behalf of the institute, that the officers connected therewith xvill do their level best and assist the Department in preventing malingering?—l could not give you that undertaking on my oxvn responsibility—l should have to consult my executive committee. Officers of Institute: Yes, certainly, give it. Witness: But if you xvere to ask me as an individual if I xvould enhance that idea or strive to get that introduced, I xx-ould do it gladly, because I recognize that the malingerer is a very small commodity in the New Zealand Railways, and wherever I meet him he gets no time from me. 108. Mr. McViUy.] Then you recognize that the malingerer ought to be stamped out? — Certainly. 109. And the institute as an institute is prepared to assist the Department in stamping him out? Yes. 1 cannot speak for the individual, but for the representatives I say xve are prepared to stamp him out, and we will hack the Department up in any strong steps it takes in regard to the malingerer, because we feel insulted that the whole lot of us should lie classed under the same style. 110. Mr. Dennehy.] You heard Mr. McVilly state, in comparing the salaries paid outside, that tt man in the service advanced to a salary of £200 in txx-elve years?—No, he asked if I knexv of any case outside where a man xx-ent to £200 a yeai in txvelve years. 111. Are you not aware that that scale only came into force in 1907?— Yes, I am aware of that. 112. You are also aware that none of us here present participated in that—none of us xvent to £200 a year in txvelve years?— Yes, it is a new scale. 113. You are aware that the men now at the top of the £200 grade have nineteen years' service? —Yes. 114. Mr. Ross.] With reference to the question of malingering, Mr. Graham, do you admit that it is necessary for the Department to hold out a bribe to the officers before they are prepared to do their duty in stamping out the malingerer?—lt is a difficult question. I do not admit that Mr. McVilly: Is that the right way to put a question, Mr. Chairman? Is the Department to be accused of bribery? I object, sir. 115. Mr. Ross.] I want the question ansxvered —I have a reason?—ln answering that question I would simply say that it is the Department's duty, in the first place, to take action in stamping out malingering, and if they do their duty in that respect I xvill admit that the bulk of the servants they have under their charge are- loyal to them, and xvill assist the Department to the utmost of their power .-in.l ability. 116. You heard the question put to you by Mr. McVilly, asking that if certain concessions were granted to the First Division were you prepared to assist the Department in stamping tint this malingering?— Yes, it xvas tantamount to that. It was a suggestion—it xvas not given as an offer.